Steyr Scout in .308

[bigbuck007]

Greetings from Bavaria,

I have my hands on a 2004 Steyr Scout rifle and need some kind advice:

The rifle is meant for hunting in the woods as well as for relaxed target shooting 100 yards. Not to much rounds in a session because of the thin barrel design... whitch i am aware of the pros and cons

My scope wish is a 1,5-6x24.
Hunting rounds: good factory ammo
Target rounds: As a reloader i will make my own suitable round.

My question: Any experience for a good target load which minimize the barrel heating at its best speically for this Steyr Scout barrel?

Do you think this Steyr will make me happy??

Thank you for your hints,


bigbuck007

 

[Mobuck]

Lighter bullet and lower charge of a faster powder. Select the powder with the lowest charge weight in your data manual and test.

 

[bamaranger]

scout rifle

Hello bigbuck, you may be well aware that the Steyr Scout has a cult like following here in the States, as well as any of the "scout rifles" in general. Wish I had a Steyr, , but I'll make do with my domestic, blue collar Savage Scout.

As a "Scout" long strings of fire are not their purpose nor forte, as you have already advised. The thin barrel was part of the design to make the rifles portable. I really can't believe that any .308 ammunition , factory or reload, will have any noticeable effect on barrel heating, especially with a light barrel like the Steyer. I'd simply limit the lengths, duration and rate of my practice sessions, setting the Steyer aside for a break as necessary.

The objection to the Scout is usually the forward mounted optic, which it seems you have chosen not to utilize. Thus you have a conventionally scoped .308 bolt carbine, which in itself is a very useful rifle. Combine the quality and unique features of the Steyr, and I would think your rifles utility would jump to an even higher plane. I do indeed think you will be pleased.

 

[T. O'Heir]

The Steyr Scout "cult" following is primarily marketing. The whole concept was one of Jeff Cooper's more stupid ideas that he couldn't get any American company to buy into.
A target rifle it ain't. A thin barrel will heat up fast regardless of the load used. At 6.6 pounds, it's not going to be fun to shoot either. You may want to try 150 or 155 grain match bullets anyway. Heavier bullets will increase the felt recoil.
"...As a reloader I will..." Any particular reason you aren't reloading for hunting too? Just curious, but if you're using factory you'll have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. The price of it makes no difference. I'd be starting with 165 grain bullets with IMR4064. Assuming you can get that powder. There are some Vihtavuori powders that will do though.
"...1.5X-6X-24..." Such a thing exist in Bavaria. There are scopes with that magnification, but not with the long eye relief required for a Cooper's Folly.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The Steyr Scout "cult" following is primarily marketing. The whole concept was one of Jeff Cooper's more stupid ideas that he couldn't get any American company to buy into.....

As is often the case, you don't know what you're talking about. I strongly suspect you actually have no experience with a Steyr Scout.

The Scout rifle is intended to be a general purpose rifle for field use. It's certainly possible to build a rifle that would be a better choice for a specified purpose. But for versatility the Scout is excellent.

Some years ago I took the General Rifle class (270) at Gunsite using my Steyr Scout. With it I was able to well handle the assortment of conditions and shooting problem the class presented. It's quick handling and responsiveness were very useful in managing shooting problems which called for accuracy out to about 300 yards, under field conditions, under time pressure.

 

[Model12Win]

Great hunting rifles. They seem a bit lightly built for hunting though, I'm not sure why they make them like that. Also, I never got the point of the whole long eye scope deal. Doesn't seem very good for stand hunting etc.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Great hunting rifles. They seem a bit lightly built for hunting though, I'm not sure why they make them like that. Also, I never got the point of the whole long eye scope deal. Doesn't seem very good for stand hunting etc.

They're light to be easy to carry. Remember, it's a general purpose rifle to be carried/for use in the field.

And the low power, forward mounted scope isn't that good for stand hunting, but it offers quick target acquisition and is great for snap shots.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Stupid is a good word to use when we are talking about our own follies in a light-hearted way and not too seriously at that. Otherwise, it can be an offensive and disrespectful term that shouldn't be used by polite people.
I, myself, don't care much for the forward mounted scope. But it does leave the path clear for stripper-clip loading. It's a worthy concept, even if it's not my preference; I wouldn't call it stupid.

 

[xnaerughiazk]

As I recall hunting was of secondary concern for Col. Jeff Cooper, when have you needed stripper clips for hunting.

Col. Cooper was primarily concerned about 2 legged game.

 

[Frank Ettin]

As I recall hunting was of secondary concern for Col. Jeff Cooper,......

Not really. He was an avid hunter and mostly used rifles in a Scout configuration. He decided on the specifications for the Scout based on his experience, and the experiences of others, in the field. I had a chance to see his rifles and discuss hunting with him on several visits to his home at Gunsite.

 

[Art Eatman]

Those with Scout rifles won the "Shoot'n'Scoot" matches at Gunsite, which says to me they'd work well for still-hunting in thick cover where rapid acquisition of the target is a necessity.

A light barrel is of consequence only if you do long strings of fire on targets from a bench rest. Assuming a good balance, light weight is definitely worthwhile in the field. I've rarely needed a second shot on my deer, coyotes and jackrabbits.

As to Cooper and hunting, I know he wrote of an aoudad hunt in the Davis Mountains of west Texas. He hunted in Africa several times, and I believe that Rich Lucibella was along on one of Cooper's trips. Might be there's a photo here in a thread, from back in 1999 or thereabouts.

I've tried a Savage Scout and a Ruger Scout. Both work well, but I'd had over 40 years of using conventionally-mounted scopes and didn't want to have to re-train my reflexes. I have a Sako carbine in .243 which matches Cooper's parameters for length and weight; it's one of my "pets" for hunting. Thus it's hard for me to be negative about the Steyr.

 

[jonnyc]

"Do you think this Steyr will make me happy??"

When they first came out I put one at the top of my "Wish List". Before I could afford one I built a "clone" using a Soviet M38 as the base rifle. I liked it but sold the rifle to a friend who seemed to like it more. I refocused on the Steyr and was happy when a friend brought one to the range. After 5 rounds I permanently removed it from my list. I didn't like the recoil, accuracy, or the overall feel of the rifle.

 

[Pathfinder45]

So I went and looked on GB at the Steyr, the Savage, and the Ruger versions of the Scout Rifle. I can approve of the concept, generally, but those rifles are ugly to me. I must have been born in a less modern time. It looks to me that the only substantial thing those rifles have over a 1903-A3 Springfield is the ease of scope mounting. I would rather see the Scout concept applied to a Mauser 98 or Springfield, retaining the stripperclip capability, good aperture sight that stays on the rifle while a quick-detach scope is mounted. Rather than having a muzzle-device that adds to the over-all length, I would just go with a bit longer barrel, say, 22 inches. Detachable magazine? No, thank you. Stock could be either Walnut, with laminated wood being just acceptable. But it would have to be a plastic-free rifle. I would want the scope to be as simple and rugged as possible, probably a steel-tube Weaver K4 or K6 with a simple duplex reticle. Trap in the buttplate to access a cleaning rod and perhaps an ammo pouch that is attached to the buttstock would complete the rig as good to go for an extended reconnaissance of the remote territories. There are a few good choices on calibers, 308 probably makes the most sense, globally. I would lean more to 30-'06 or 270 Winchester, and 8mm Mauser could also work.
But if THEY make it, who would buy it? In today's world, it seems the trend is to more and more plastic and more complexity. Shooters want rails to mount more and more accessories.
Will the Steyr Scout bring happiness to it's owner's? Maybe, but happiness is elusive.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So I went and looked on GB at the Steyr, the Savage, and the Ruger versions of the Scout Rifle. I can approve of the concept, generally, but those rifles are ugly to me....

I can't argue with that. They are utilitarian. Frank Packmayr Mausers they are not. But pretty is as pretty does.

 

[chris in va]

Thread really took the 'scenic route'.

Here, allow me to reset things. This is his original question.

My question: Any experience for a good target load which minimize the barrel heating at its best speically for this Steyr Scout barrel?

 

[Art Eatman]

Target accuracy is a cut-and-try effort. Even a slightly reduced load will heat the barrel if the rate of fire is fast.

I've always had good luck with Sierra bullets. I don't load for the .308, so I'd ask those who do as to which powder has worked best for them.

 

[bamaranger]

happy, happy, happy

I suspect that the OP has mounted his 1.5-6x in conventional fashion and not forward. Course I could be wrong. If so equipped, it will still be a very useful rifle. Seems like I read that Cooper himself admitted that a carbine so equipped was still practical, one just couldn't call it a "scout" by Coopers standards.

Cooper's folly is now being currently manufactured by Ruger (first the Frontier, now the GSR), Savage and Mossberg. None quite make grade, but they certainly follow the principal. Steyr may have been the only maker to exoeriment back in the '80's (?), but Scouts are popular now. All three allow the scope to be mounted forward, or conventionally, if that is what one desires. And the reliable dot sight in its many forms seem to further the program. Cooper didn't want batteries on his rifle, and was suspcious of scopes, as many of his era were, but we've come some ways since that day. But back up irons are still a good thing, witness their prevalance on AR's.

I firmly believe that any .308 in a slender tube ( or one not so slender) will heat the barrel noticeably with repeated rapid fire, or long strings of fire. No tinkering with loads or powder will change that. I'd be curious to know just how much accuracy is lost with a "hot" Steyr Scout . I suspect that it is not so much as to be beyond "minute of target".

The Steyr had some interesting features that have not yet been seen again (I think) in a production rifle. The intergral stowed spare mag, the integral, slick bipod, and the tiny little dissappearing back up front and aperature rear sight.

Our Bavarian friend has reason to be happy I think.

 

[Unclenick]

I have one as well.

Yes, there's recoil if you aren't used to heavy calibers or don't know to hold the stock back firmly into your shoulder to mitigate runup of the recoil velocity. But, frankly, if you've shot any of the more standard configuration magnums in field weight rifles, it's not anything to write home about. If you've need to shoot one a lot at full power, get a PAST recoil pad to avoid the same annoyance a 12 gauge causes your shoulder after a long day of shooting.

The forward scope concept is about not obscuring field of view. You have both eyes open and can see well around the scope to pick up changes in conditions or target, to make it easy to recover a sight picture if the target gets out of the scope field of view, and to make it easy to change targets. It combines with low magnification to avoid you getting "lost in the glass". Some eschew the low power scope, but I think it is a good thing. I won the shoot-off at the end of my 270 class, and did it with iron sights. I think if you can hit with iron sights you can certainly hit with a low power scope, plus it saves you having to shift focus. The older I get, the more I appreciate that last point.

The main technical accuracy feature of the scout is that the aluminum receiver extension tensions the barrel like a barrel tube. This leaves only the portion of the barrel forward of the tensioning point free to whip around. That greatly reduces the influence of whip on point of impact, so a large variety of ammunition shoots well in the gun. Mine groups in the range of 1/2 to 3/4" at 100 yards with about any well-made round. It likes Federal Gold Medal Match. I've not noticed any problem with heat walking, which may be an artifact of the barrel tensioning system, at least in part.

That said, if I were going to shoot a high volume of ammunition to practice field positions and fast bolt operation, I would probably put together some practice loads of about 16 grain IMR Trail Boss loads with the 135 grain flat base MatchKing bullets. At 1600-1650 fps from the 18" tube, this is also perfectly adequate for shooting small game like rabbits. It certainly won't punish you in any regard.

For more serious target loads, you can do worse than to mimic Federal's Gold Medal load with 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 under a 168 grain MatchKing lit by the Federal 210 primer or the Russian KVB-7 primers. For an intermediate load, I recently switched to the bulky Vihtavuori N135 for 150 grain 30-06 Garand loads, and in 308 Win, with that same bullet, you can do worse than the same 43.5 grain charge weight giving you around 2500 fps for a moderate practice load.

This is a fast pointing rifle. It is intended for targets that reflect that, and your practice with it should reflect that, too.

 

[bigbuck007]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot for your valuable input.

Attached you see my 100 meter target paper with GECCO hunting ammo (170 grain bullet) I think for hunting purpose this is good to go for me..

For more target shooting accuracy i am going into testing the 150 to 168 grain region. Lets see the outcome.

I agree that i can not avoid over heating even with reduced loads so i will go for standard loads with a reasonable "kick" which is half the fun.

And to avoid overheating i will make after 5 rounds a shooting break, using instead my Winchester 1876 in 45-60

Again thank you for your good comments,


bigbuck

 

[Llama Bob]

Since it's a 10-twist barrel, I would start with the Sierra 168 or 175gr Match King for a low power target load. In terms of powder, I'd go with Hodgdon 4895 if you can get it. It has the nice feature of igniting reliably in downloaded loads. Take a look at

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf

for more information. You don't necessarily want to load all the way down to 60% of max load like they say you can, but the fact that it doesn't need a full case to ignite well improves the chances of finding a low powered yet accurate load for your rifle. H4895 is also fairly temperature insensitive which is good for accuracy.

Good luck with the scout rifle - I love the concept. Mine's a Ruger rather than a Steyr, but the idea's the same.