Steyr Scout....376Steyr for elk,moose & bear

Milehi

New member
Ok guys I've started to squirrel some money away and am going to buy a Scout. My next question is the .376 Steyr worth waiting for? It is suppose to be on dealer shelves next month according to GSI.
I elk hunt yearly, and will hunt brown bear in Alaska next spring. I know I would shoot a .308 more but if .376 brass was available along with reloading dies I would hunt more with a .376 Steyr than a .308 Scout.
Or do you think the .376 is just a bunch of hype that is doomed to failure?
 
If you get the brass and the dies, who cares? You're talking about spending $2500+ on a rifle, and thousands and thousands more on big game hunts... so buy 1000 cases to start out with. .375 bullets will be around forever. I think the cartridge sounds pretty nifty, and it's guys like you who will decide whether or not it carves a niche. If you go out and knock down a nice boar and report how the mighty .376 Steyr leveled the mighty bruin as neatly as a matchstick, you'll be one of the yea-sayers, and the cartridge gains an instant "killer" reputation. On paper, that thing is awesome.

C'mon! We need a new range report on a new rifle! Buy the Big Scout! You know you want to... You'd be the first kid on the block with...

Could it be that I'm living a tad bit vicariously, here... :)

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 
What I would really love is an SS chambered for 7MM Remington Magnum, .338 Win Mag, or .300 Win Mag.



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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The 376 "Dragoon" from Steyr is now available, but it has fallen into peculiar paths and deserves a certain amount of reservation. First, the company insists upon calling it a Scout, which it is not. Second, Steve Hornady was conned into producing a 225-grain load, which is unsuitable for a weapon of this type. This piece is not a deer gun, being suitable for targets of a thousand pounds and up. When I acquired one of the very first 375s from Winchester (in 1937!) 1 found out right away that a 235-grain bullet in this caliber is too short, both for exterior and impact ballistics. A 225 should prove just slightly worse. I was astonished to find that the Dragoon weighs exactly the same as the Scout, at 7 lbs on the nose with telescope in place. As you might suppose, a 7-pound 375 is a bit on the brisk side and not for the recoil shy. I have made a date with Clint Smith in Texas to do a bison between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The new 376 Steyr cartridge should prove just about ideal for the task-using the 270-grain bullet.
Jeff Cooper October 1999[/quote]
I note that the Colonel is being quite gracious here. Fact is that a .376 in 225grain is just a hair above useless for it's intended prey: thick skinned, dangerous game.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited October 16, 1999).]
 
Rich,

I'm not sure I fully understand the objections here. If the .225 grain factory load is a bit light then roll your own load with heavier bullets.
The .376 Steyr is supposed to match .375 H&H ballistics. Even if it falls short of that (maybe you'd lose powder capacity because of having to set heavy bullets too deep...?), its still a significant cartridge.

An acquaintance hunts both deer and brown bear here (in Kodiak) with an 18" barreled, lightened .375 H&H. This guy knows what he's doing. He, like myself, has survived a brown bear mauling and knows the value of a heavy but manueverable rifle. He uses heavy Nosler Partitions (270 grain I think) that have proved effective on bears and smaller big game.

At any rate, the concept (IMHO) is sound. I think you'll see these rifles in the hands of brown bear guides here very soon after release. I think that Cooper fully grasped the necessity of having not just a heavy rifle, but a fast and handy rifle when dealing with dangerous game. Its the same concept (only modernized) as the old H&H double rifles. Those guns were balanced like quail guns and you could get the muzzle on target while a guy with a longer "heavy" was still trying to shoulder his.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith-
The point has been clouded by my desire to protect the innocent. I had a conversation with the gentleman who accompanied Col Cooper on his test firings of the .376. I'm told it wasn't pretty. :)

Basically, the 225 failed because it wouldn't function in the mechanism. If Steyr resets the action for this short round, it may not function well with real world loads. If that happens, it will hardly match the characteristics of the 270 grain .375. Instead, we'll wind up with a hybrid, more in the beefed up .308 category. And this will be ideal for....what?

The point of the .376 was to take down dangerous game. My limited exposure to such ballistics indicates that the 270 grain bullet can make this task doable....anything much lighter makes it iffy.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited October 16, 1999).]
 
Ahhh, I see. Yes, if it won't function with a heavy round you'd be better off cutting down a .375 and living with it.

They should be on the shelves soon and we'll see whats what. I can't afford one in any case....

Oops, I forgot to ask - is the .376 Steyr an actual .375 diameter bullet or have they gone to some oddball size?


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan



[This message has been edited by Keith Rogan (edited October 17, 1999).]
 
Hi Gang,

I just returned last night from the NRA Whittington Center - I was there to attend the Gunsite Reunion. Col Cooper was there, with a prototype Steyr .376 rifle in Scout configuration. There was a limited amount of ammo on hand, and anyone who was interested was able to fire a shot. We were able to handle the rifle extensively the entire weekend. Here are my observations, based on firing one round, and observing about 15-20 other people fire one round each. The ammo was a 270 grain bullet at 2600 fps.

The rifle is the same weight as a Steyr Scout, 7 pounds. This particular rifle was finished in an experimental Advantage camouflage pattern that was very attractive. The barrel was a little heavier in profile than the normal .308 barrel, and surprisingly thin. It was fluted, just like the .308's. The receiver was marked Steyr Dragoon. I don't know if this is how the production rifles will be marked. The rifle had all the standard Steyr Scout features, including the Leupold forward mounted scope, integral bipod, Ching sling and reserve magazine in the butt. The magazine holds 4 rounds in the larger caliber.

When it was my turn to fire, I fired resting my elbows on the available table and shot at a metal target 200 yards away. The recoil was there, but not severe or unmanageable in any way. I hit the 7 inch center of the target. Immediately after the shot, I operated the bolt while the rifle was still on my shoulder, just like I was trained. So the recoil did not distract me from my normal follow through. The recoil was certainly heavier the my .308 Scout (big surprise) but I had no problem. I would have fired it more if ammo were available.

I watched about 15 people fire the rifle, ranging all over the spectrum from small statured women to heavy framed men. Some shot it standing and some from the table. The majority shot at the 100 yard target, the others at the 200 yard one. On some people there was significant muzzle rise, on others it was only moderate. This had much to do with the shooter's technique, as we ranged from pretty inexperienced to very experienced. Almost to a person, people commented that the recoil was more manageable than expected. One problem that popped up is the reserve magazine in the butt would occassionally fall out. There didn't seem to be any correlation between the size of the shooter, or the shooting postion or how tightly/loosely the rifle was held. This has also been known to happen with the .308 as well, and there is a factory fix available for those who experience it.

My impression was very favorable. My understanding is that there are 2 power levels in this cartridge, Jeff was criticizing the lighter one. I feel there is a solid niche for a good medium rifle. This is basically a factory Super Scout, a medium caliber rifle in Scout config, that is suitable for game 1000# and up. Jeff's Super Scout is a ZKK601 in .350 Rem mag, loaded long. After he shot his lion with it, he christened it the Lion Scout. That is the niche the Steyr Dragoon will fit. Quite honestly, I expect this rifle to be a success. I also expect other makers to start chambering rifles in this caliber.

I have been surprised at my favorable impression of this rifle. Will it replace my Win M70 in .416?....no it won't. I don't need one, but I will buy one.

You can find more info on the Steyr Scout webpage at
http://207.181.246.106/johns/project.htm

The gentleman who maintains this page was at the Reunion, and has new pictures and observations. In a few days, John should have the webpage updated with this new info.

Doug.

P.S. It uses standard .375 bullets, the '.376' designation is a marketing ploy to differentiate the product, nada mas.


[This message has been edited by Doug in PHX (edited October 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Doug in PHX (edited October 18, 1999).]
 
Thanks for that update! It sounds like any bugs have been worked out.
Thanks also for clarifying the bullet dimensions. Since its a standard .375, the reloader will have a wide range of choices available to tailor the rifle to his needs.

I think these rifles will be a big hit here in Alaska with guides and hunters.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
FYI - The .376 Steyr cartridge is supposed to be offered in Steyr's Pro Hunter model as well. This rifle is considerably cheaper in price than the Scout configuration, and has a heavier profile barrel. It will still be handy, just heavier and cheaper than the Scout. If a scope is mounted on the Pro Hunter, it would be in the conventional location on top of the action. The Scout has a reserve aperture sight, the Pro Hunter has normal open sights, mounted on the barrel. There is a picture of the .376 Pro Hunter on the Steyr Scout webpage listed above.

See the GSI website for more info on the Pro Hunter and Scout rifles, as well.

www.gsifirearms.com


[This message has been edited by Doug in PHX (edited October 20, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Doug in PHX (edited October 20, 1999).]
 
Keith, a buddy in Anchorage is buying a Pro Hunter in .376 with his PFD, and yes, i think you're right about the future popularity with guides and hunters here. I'm looking forward to his range reports.
 
What I can't understand is Jeff Cooper's continual damning of the 375 H&H, while extolling the 350 Remington Magnum. I know it's shorter, but, it's also weaker. I take it the Steyr cartridge would also be damned according to JC?

The H&H also has 300 grain ammunition which kicks a bit less than the 270 grain. I love the Silver Tips!

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There is the science of Ballistics and the Art of Bullistics
Yankee Doodle
 
BigG

Jeff Cooper criticizes the .375 H&H when it's used in the heavy rifle role, specifically for Southern Buffalo. He also doesn't like the .416's in this role, preferring a .45 caliber 500 at 2300-2400 fps, ala .460 G&A. He thinks that the .375 H&H is a nifty medium cartridge, but that comparable results can be achieved with other mediums in a shorter action. Examples of this would be the .350 Rem Mag, the .35 Whelen and now the new .376 Steyr. Notice that Jeff took his lion with a hopped up .350 Rem Mag. I have handle the Swift A-frame bullet recovered from that lion, and it performed perfectly, and almost completely penetrated the lion from face to haunch. Presumably he would have been comfortable with a .375 in this same situation, except for the more cumbersome rifle.

Not saying that I agree or disagree, since I'm still in the learning mode regarding mediums and heavies. I recently bought a M70 in .416 Rem Mag from a friend who took 2 buff with it in Africa. I am building a .35 Whelen on a 1903 action. I have a friend with a Rem 600 in .350 Rem Mag. I'll know more a year from now.

Doug.
 
Thanks, Doug. The Guru definitely knows what he knows. I used to live in PHX. Went to ASU and Thunderbird. Loved to shoot out in the desert N. of Beardsley Road. Those were the days!

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There is the science of Ballistics and the Art of Bullistics
Yankee Doodle
 
Ipecac,

Please post your buddies results with the .376 when they become available...?

I'm still waiting on the Remington Custom shop .350 Rem Mag carbine. It was due a couple weeks back but one wouldn't expect a manufacturer to actually make a deadline... Hunting season will probably be over before the damned thing comes in.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Bummer, Kieth; I remember your search for that rifle several months back. Are you considering the Steyer Dragoon, too?

L.P.
 
So tell me - Here is the lower 48 states - What is the .376 Steyr NOT good for? Am I safe to assume it will be very good for everything here?

That GSI page - talk about your "TOYS R US"!!!

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
LP,

No, the Dragoon is a bit out of my price range. The .350 Rem Mag is Coopers original choice and will suffice for my needs here in North America anyway.
From a 20 inch barrel, you can drive a 250 grain Partition at about 2500 fps. I've found some 300 grain loads at 2300 fps, but haven't looked into the bullets as yet - not sure what premium bullets are available in the weight.
I'll do a report on the rifle when I get it in and get some range time.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
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