The only difference between these two rifles is six inches of barrel. Same price. I have read reports of Remington 700 PSS LTRs (also with a 20-inch barrel) delivering excellent accuracy out to 700 yards. Does the barrel length or barrel weight (or both) contribute to such accuracy? I'd prefer a shorter barrel, but not at the expense of long-range accuracy. Anyway suggestions?
Steyr SBS Tactical HB versus HBC
- Thread starter lunde
- Start date
Shorter barrels are stiffer than longer barrels of the same profile, so they have the potential to be more "accurate" in that regard.
On the other hand, a longer barrel will yield a higher muzzle velocity which means the bullet will have less time for wind to act on it deflecting it along its path. More elevation adjustment will also be needed with the shorter barrel, due to more bullet drop at the target.
A shorter gun is a lot easier to carry around, though..
-z
On the other hand, a longer barrel will yield a higher muzzle velocity which means the bullet will have less time for wind to act on it deflecting it along its path. More elevation adjustment will also be needed with the shorter barrel, due to more bullet drop at the target.
A shorter gun is a lot easier to carry around, though..
-z
Lunde, a couple of things to think about. Styer is having some serious internal business troubles right now. Who knows what's going to happen in the long run and it would suck not to have a place to get parts for your rifle. If you don't think it would happen then listen to this. A good friend of mine has a Styer SSG and when he heard about the troubles he called the Styer distributor in the US and was told that he should stock up on any spare parts he thinks he needs. Also he wanted a Styer scope mount and finally got one of the last 30 coming into the country for two years at a cost of $400. Granted he could have gotten another brand but he wanted the Styer mount.
Another thing is that if you ever want to rebarrel there is only one place that my friend could find that rebarrels the Styers because the barrels aren't threaded on, they are press fit. These are just things that would lead me to tell you to get the Remington.
If you do go with a short barreled LTR then make sure to get a scope with enough elevation adjustments. You will lose some velocity but you should be good to about 700 yards. The M1As have 22" barrels and people shoot those to 1000 yards and they are gas guns.
If you like the LTR stock and feel but want a 26" barrel get the 700 VS. It's got a stock very similar to the LTR and the barreled action is the same as the 700P but with a slightly different finish but it is still matte black. Also they only run about $550 or so.
Another thing is that if you ever want to rebarrel there is only one place that my friend could find that rebarrels the Styers because the barrels aren't threaded on, they are press fit. These are just things that would lead me to tell you to get the Remington.
If you do go with a short barreled LTR then make sure to get a scope with enough elevation adjustments. You will lose some velocity but you should be good to about 700 yards. The M1As have 22" barrels and people shoot those to 1000 yards and they are gas guns.
If you like the LTR stock and feel but want a 26" barrel get the 700 VS. It's got a stock very similar to the LTR and the barreled action is the same as the 700P but with a slightly different finish but it is still matte black. Also they only run about $550 or so.
If you are looking for a "tactical" rifle, run, don't walk, away from the Steyr SBS. Overall, the rifle is actually very good - out of the box accuracy is excellent. However, the stock is a complete and total POS. I have the standard weight 20" barrel, and even just sitting on the bipod the stock flexes so much that it is almost touching the barrel. I have heard others say that the stock DOES flex enough to touch the barrel on the HB model. After less than 10 rounds of shooting off of a bipod, the stock on mine will deform enough that the barrel no longer free floats (it will, however, return to normal after cooling). Two weeks ago I took it to the range, and was going to shoot off a bag. I was having trouble getting hte bipod off, so I just left it on, folded. I found that extra weight of the bipod, even without the rifle resting on it (and so relieved of the extra forces of the stock being essentially semi-attached to the surface) was enough to cause the stock to deform. I had the digital camera in the car, so decided to take a few pictures. Unfortunately, it looks like the autofocus picked up on the background rather than the rifle, so the quality sucks, but you should get the idea. These pictures are after 9 shots, although it started to become a problem after 6.
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Rocko
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Rocko
(continued)
Here's a picture of some of the groups that day, to show how this effects accuracy. The first two groups really aren't anything to brag about, but are pretty decent for $10/box core-lokt:
This one is after the barrel no longer free floated:
Pretty obvious difference. I don't see how any company can bill a rifle as "tactical" when it will not function off of a bipod. Since the Steyr is not really all that common, aftermarket stocks are very few and far between. The only thing non-custom, is the McMillan A3 that Steyr also offers on one of the SBS models. GSI has them for $600, which is waaaay more than I want to invest in this rifle (hell, could almost buy an 700 PSS or LTR for that). I think I will end up dumping this, and buying an LTR.
Of course, as mentioned above, there is also the uncertainly of Steyr's future. Extra mags are big $$ as well - I have the 10 round kit (all of the "standard" tacticals have them, but the HB and HBC don't). The 10 rounds kit is only $25, but the relatively cheap plastic mags are over $100!!!
Rocko
Here's a picture of some of the groups that day, to show how this effects accuracy. The first two groups really aren't anything to brag about, but are pretty decent for $10/box core-lokt:
This one is after the barrel no longer free floated:
Pretty obvious difference. I don't see how any company can bill a rifle as "tactical" when it will not function off of a bipod. Since the Steyr is not really all that common, aftermarket stocks are very few and far between. The only thing non-custom, is the McMillan A3 that Steyr also offers on one of the SBS models. GSI has them for $600, which is waaaay more than I want to invest in this rifle (hell, could almost buy an 700 PSS or LTR for that). I think I will end up dumping this, and buying an LTR.
Of course, as mentioned above, there is also the uncertainly of Steyr's future. Extra mags are big $$ as well - I have the 10 round kit (all of the "standard" tacticals have them, but the HB and HBC don't). The 10 rounds kit is only $25, but the relatively cheap plastic mags are over $100!!!
Rocko
I have a Styer SSG PII K with a 20" barrel. It is very accurate (1 moa or less) out to 800 yards. I shoot out to 1000 yards with some of my other rifles, but have not shot the 20" beyond 800. I figured that the bullet drop was getting bad enough at 800 with the shorter barrel. I would not buy a Steyr right now with the dubious situation on their future. I really like my SSG, but I sure hope that I do not get orphaned on support. I have never fired a LTR, but it looks like a good choice. I do own 700 PSS rifles and they are an excellent choice. Best. Watch-Six
A couple things.
If you guys note, lunde's original post was almost a year ago. I came across the thread while searching for information on the Steyr rifles.
The stock-warping problem is *most* disturbing, as I was considering a Steyr SBS Prohunter / Mountain / Tactical Carbine myself. I may still consider it, if the problem can be addressed.
The PII and PIIK look like real sweet rifles.
In the Nov. issue of S.W.A.T., there is a review of the Steyr SBS Tactical McMillan, which is favorable. It of course avoids the Steyr stock problem.
It also says that the company is "OKAY" for the time being - a new holding company is letting them keep the land. Anyone have any newer news?
-z
If you guys note, lunde's original post was almost a year ago. I came across the thread while searching for information on the Steyr rifles.
The stock-warping problem is *most* disturbing, as I was considering a Steyr SBS Prohunter / Mountain / Tactical Carbine myself. I may still consider it, if the problem can be addressed.
The PII and PIIK look like real sweet rifles.
In the Nov. issue of S.W.A.T., there is a review of the Steyr SBS Tactical McMillan, which is favorable. It of course avoids the Steyr stock problem.
It also says that the company is "OKAY" for the time being - a new holding company is letting them keep the land. Anyone have any newer news?
-z
Watch-Six: You have a PIIK and a 700PSS?
How do they compare? Obviously the barrel length is different, but ignoring that difference, which do you prefer and why?
Would a full-length PII be a better choice than a 700 PSS/VS ?
Does anyone else have a comparison between the Steyr SBS Tactical Carbine, the PIIK, and the Remington LTR?
-z
How do they compare? Obviously the barrel length is different, but ignoring that difference, which do you prefer and why?
Would a full-length PII be a better choice than a 700 PSS/VS ?
Does anyone else have a comparison between the Steyr SBS Tactical Carbine, the PIIK, and the Remington LTR?
-z