A co-worker (a self-proclaimed bleeding-heart liberal) said that he believed that if everyone were allowed to CCW that the murder rate would quadruple. When I told him that hadn't happened in the 38 states that have shall-issue CCW (I believe the 38 is correct, but Packing.org only lists 35). He was amazed that any state besides Texas allows CCW and asked me for stats specifically on what happened to murder rates in states where CCW has passed. Does anyone have links to such stats? Preferably from "official" sources like the DOJ, because if the stats come from the NRA he'll say they doctored the numbers, but the Brady bunch wouldn't do such a thing.
Stats on before and after CCW
- Thread starter MHDIsHere
- Start date
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
http://www.packing.org/resources/?ccw_topic=29 - Links to many sources.
Professors Lott and Mustard (of, I believe, the University of Chicago) wrote a treatise that indicated -- in essence -- more guns, less crime. Although they have been numerous rebuttals and some feel these academics have been discredited, it is probably worth your time to do a Goggle search re their study.
if everyone were allowed to CCW that the murder rate would quadruple.
I would agree. Luckily, not everyone is allowed to carry CCW. Only trained, law abiding folk!
Last stat I saw for FLorida, was a few years ago.
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Since Oct 1, 1987 firearms used in a crime 157
In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit."
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/
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While a little outdated, search for "The Lott-Mustard Report"
John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime. Lott writes, "Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes."
I would agree. Luckily, not everyone is allowed to carry CCW. Only trained, law abiding folk!
Last stat I saw for FLorida, was a few years ago.
###
Since Oct 1, 1987 firearms used in a crime 157
In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit."
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/
###
While a little outdated, search for "The Lott-Mustard Report"
John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime. Lott writes, "Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes."
IZinterrogator
New member
What's that supposed to mean? Even though I'm not native, I'm offended... wait a minute... oh my God, I've been assimilated... guess it is time to get the "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could" bumper sticker.
Nah, I don't do bumper stickers.
If you haven't already, this would be a fine time to point out to your friend that his "lack of awareness" of the present day CCW use across the nation speaks to a much larger problem: anti-gunners by-and-large are not educated about present day laws, actual statistics including use of guns in self defense as well as the commintment of a crime, ect. Often they speak of having an "open mind", but just as often they get all their info from Rosie ODonnell and Time Mag. Buzz words like "epidemic" and "assault" get them goose-stepping together down anti-gun road, without stopping to consider real facts and numbers.
Charley,
This is true. He also insists that banning guns would prevent suicides, that's why so many cops commit suicide, because they have guns. He actually said that. He was amazed that I had a target license when I lived in NYC (where I currently work), he asked why I "needed" a pistol. I told him I didn't "need" a pistol, I wanted one.
What actually started the discussion on CCW was he said that he could understand if you were a diamond merchant you'd need a gun to protect your stock. I replied that a diamond merchant should have a gun to protect diamonds, but a woman can't have a gun to protect herself from rape. His reply was that I apparently thought all women should be allowed to have/carry guns, to which I replied that I thought that any person without a criminal record should be allowed to carry a gun. When I told him that of 355,000 CCW permits in FL only five were pulled for crimes, he said that just meant the people with CCW who commited the crimes weren't caught.
I've pulled CDC stats on murder rates by state, I'm plotting them on graphs with a line drawn at the year CCW was passed. He's so far amazed that murder rates haven't gone thru the roof in states that "allow people to carry revolvers".
This is true. He also insists that banning guns would prevent suicides, that's why so many cops commit suicide, because they have guns. He actually said that. He was amazed that I had a target license when I lived in NYC (where I currently work), he asked why I "needed" a pistol. I told him I didn't "need" a pistol, I wanted one.
What actually started the discussion on CCW was he said that he could understand if you were a diamond merchant you'd need a gun to protect your stock. I replied that a diamond merchant should have a gun to protect diamonds, but a woman can't have a gun to protect herself from rape. His reply was that I apparently thought all women should be allowed to have/carry guns, to which I replied that I thought that any person without a criminal record should be allowed to carry a gun. When I told him that of 355,000 CCW permits in FL only five were pulled for crimes, he said that just meant the people with CCW who commited the crimes weren't caught.
I've pulled CDC stats on murder rates by state, I'm plotting them on graphs with a line drawn at the year CCW was passed. He's so far amazed that murder rates haven't gone thru the roof in states that "allow people to carry revolvers".