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Statistics On Cops Vs. Bad Guys?
- Thread starter Matt VDW
- Start date
It does favor cops but it is now estimated that 30% or MORE of those shootings by cops are nothing more than "suicide by cop." I suspect it may be higher. The lowest estimate I have seen is 20%.
Considering either rate the high miss rate by police is even more shocking as most of those shootings are handed to them.
Considering either rate the high miss rate by police is even more shocking as most of those shootings are handed to them.
That's an interesting point about "suicide by cop".
Then again, I'm sure that there are many times that a police officer has the opportunity and justification to shoot but chooses not to. Some bad guys go to jail instead of the morgue only because of the legal and moral restraints on those who take them off the street.
Then again, I'm sure that there are many times that a police officer has the opportunity and justification to shoot but chooses not to. Some bad guys go to jail instead of the morgue only because of the legal and moral restraints on those who take them off the street.
Matt, you have it right. I first used the term "suicide by cop" in the early 1980's when I was faced with such a case and wrote an article for SWAT magazine.
If the public only knew how many people cops DON'T shoot they'd be shocked. Some nights I thought I could use a truck to haul the bodies before I got off the shift.
People reach in their clothing, make threats, and do dumb stuff that puts your undies up near your throat. Nobody discusses those that we don't shoot.
I have my critics but they had better figure out and find and examine that fine line and how we waver across it and why. I had a cop killer in my sights and didn't shoot when it was 100% legal to do so as he held off officers with a knife. To this day I can't tell you why I didn't shoot and instead waited. Only question afterward was how he "fell" into the Missouri River 80 feet below from the bridge he was standing on. I claim he jumped as we wrestled. He has his story I had mine. Damn jerk could swim. Imagine that. (his name was Wade Atkins. He stabbed a trooper and killed him in Spearfish SD)
If the public only knew how many people cops DON'T shoot they'd be shocked. Some nights I thought I could use a truck to haul the bodies before I got off the shift.
People reach in their clothing, make threats, and do dumb stuff that puts your undies up near your throat. Nobody discusses those that we don't shoot.
I have my critics but they had better figure out and find and examine that fine line and how we waver across it and why. I had a cop killer in my sights and didn't shoot when it was 100% legal to do so as he held off officers with a knife. To this day I can't tell you why I didn't shoot and instead waited. Only question afterward was how he "fell" into the Missouri River 80 feet below from the bridge he was standing on. I claim he jumped as we wrestled. He has his story I had mine. Damn jerk could swim. Imagine that. (his name was Wade Atkins. He stabbed a trooper and killed him in Spearfish SD)
The data is available in a DOJ/FBI report online at: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fifc.pdf
Title & Description:
Firearm Injury from Crime: Firearms, Crime, and Criminal Justice
This document reports available statistical information on fatal and nonfatal firearm injury that results from crime from a number of sources. Findings include --
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Of the victims of nonfatal violent crime who faced an assailant armed with a firearm, 3% suffered gunshot wounds.
<LI>An estimated 57,500 nonfatal gunshot wounds from assaults were treated in hospital emergency departments from June 1992 through May 1993.
<LI>Over half of these victims were black males; a quarter were black males age 15-24.
<LI>The firearm injury rate for police officers declined in the early 1980s and began climbing again after 1987, but has not exceeded the peak reached in 1980-81.
</UL>
Data presented in the report are from several sources including the BJS National Crime Victimization Survey, the FBI's Supplemental Homicide Reports, and the Firearms Injury Surveillance Study sponsored by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Included are descriptions of the characteristics of the victims and the circumstances surrounding the crime. Data about the number of law enforcement officers injured by firearms, offender involvement in firearm injury, and the costs of firearm injury are also included. 4/96 NCJ 160093
I will post an digest of stats from the report as soon as I finish it myself(may take a few hours).
[This message has been edited by JeepBear (edited March 03, 2000).]
Title & Description:
Firearm Injury from Crime: Firearms, Crime, and Criminal Justice
This document reports available statistical information on fatal and nonfatal firearm injury that results from crime from a number of sources. Findings include --
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Of the victims of nonfatal violent crime who faced an assailant armed with a firearm, 3% suffered gunshot wounds.
<LI>An estimated 57,500 nonfatal gunshot wounds from assaults were treated in hospital emergency departments from June 1992 through May 1993.
<LI>Over half of these victims were black males; a quarter were black males age 15-24.
<LI>The firearm injury rate for police officers declined in the early 1980s and began climbing again after 1987, but has not exceeded the peak reached in 1980-81.
</UL>
Data presented in the report are from several sources including the BJS National Crime Victimization Survey, the FBI's Supplemental Homicide Reports, and the Firearms Injury Surveillance Study sponsored by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Included are descriptions of the characteristics of the victims and the circumstances surrounding the crime. Data about the number of law enforcement officers injured by firearms, offender involvement in firearm injury, and the costs of firearm injury are also included. 4/96 NCJ 160093
I will post an digest of stats from the report as soon as I finish it myself(may take a few hours).
[This message has been edited by JeepBear (edited March 03, 2000).]
Okay, I was wrong. The data is NOT in the afore mentioned report. A whole lot of other data is, but I cannot find a source yet for the number of people fatally wounded by Law Enforcement Officers. The problem I am having is a Law Enforcement Officer shooting a suspect is not always(in fact rarely) classifieds as a crime, so the FBI does not include that in their Uniform Crime Reports. Give me a couple hours...I'll find it.
Again, I was wrong. It may take a wee bit longer.
The DOJ has published the following report:
National Data Collection on Police Use of Force
This discussion paper, published jointly with the National Institute of Justice, summarizes prior research on police use of force and lists the difficulties inherent in collecting use-of-force data, including definitional problems, reluctance of police agencies to provide reliable data, concerns about the misapplication of reported data, and the degree of detail needed on individual incidents.
So if I read this right, such data is almost impossible to collect as the police are reluctant to furnish it.
This is a goooood research project. I think I have a new little fire burning under my cause...
[This message has been edited by JeepBear (edited March 03, 2000).]
The DOJ has published the following report:
National Data Collection on Police Use of Force
This discussion paper, published jointly with the National Institute of Justice, summarizes prior research on police use of force and lists the difficulties inherent in collecting use-of-force data, including definitional problems, reluctance of police agencies to provide reliable data, concerns about the misapplication of reported data, and the degree of detail needed on individual incidents.
So if I read this right, such data is almost impossible to collect as the police are reluctant to furnish it.
This is a goooood research project. I think I have a new little fire burning under my cause...
[This message has been edited by JeepBear (edited March 03, 2000).]
JeepBear: Thanks for looking.
Pluspinc: I'm glad that you were able to use restraint and still survive your police career. Those who criticize the police for being too quick on the trigger should look at the bigger picture to put the incidents where they do shoot in context.
Pluspinc: I'm glad that you were able to use restraint and still survive your police career. Those who criticize the police for being too quick on the trigger should look at the bigger picture to put the incidents where they do shoot in context.