Standard practice or cause for a complaint?

O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
I just called the place where I bought a defective (new) Winchester shotgun. It didn't work out of the box, so I brought it back and they promised to send it to Winchester. I (mis?)understood that it would take about ten days for me to get it back (reasonable in view of experience with Kel-tec).

Just called them and found that they have not even mailed it yet (they batch repairs to save on shipping costs). It will take an unknown amount of time before they ship it and about a month at Winchester before I have the gun back.

I am not happy and would like an exchange for a functioning gun or to get my money back. Am I being unreasonable in view of standard business practices or would talking to them convince them to keep a customer by accommodating me? (I have bought numerous guns there over the last three years)

If I should try negotiating, what would you suggest for phrasing the concerns?

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
As a business man I don't think you are unreasonable in wanting a working replacement or you money back. In my business your shotgun was a DOA. In those cases we give the customer an advanced replacement. While I am not in the firearm's business, a similar practice would not be out of line (Brady accepted). At the very least you should get your money back. Many states have a generally unknown law that allows for ANYTHING purchased to be returned within a few weeks for any reason. Most retailers feign ignorance when you bring this to their attention.
 
I have been in business (two different businesses)for about 15 years.

Neither of which were firearms related. I have not had issues with any of my firearms.
However, I would never dream of making a customer wait while I accumulate a "batch" of warranty items to ship at one time. If they have that many problems that this accumulation actually occurs maybe you need to re-think your purchasing habits. I really doubt that this is the case. It sounds like someone just dropped the ball.

If it were me, I would contact the manufacturer and relay the story to them. Sometimes you need to come from the other direction. They will not be happy with the iresponsible product representation or support on the part of the reseller. You may even find that they will insist on an instant exchange. They really don't want their customers to be unhappy. If none of this works, there are other remedies, but I doubt you will have a problem. Above all, keep your cool when appropriate.

As far as negotiating goes, you paid your money, the product has never worked, you need it handled. End of conversation.

It's amazing to me that a repeat customer anywhere gets treated like this. If your story is accurate, after this is handled I would be sure to not give that establishment another dime. There are too many guys out there working too hard to make an honest living.
 
Winchester's response was "send it in yourself, but we won't replace it for you and compensate the dealer". Ack!

I will ask for my money back tonight and spend it on a Kel-tec, as they understand what custmer service means. Wish they made shotguns...

If the dealer does not co-operate, what are my options other than going along withthe shaft? Calling AG's office? I am not sure I want to involve the scumbag that passes for AG aroundhere in anything gun-related (though the dealer need no know that).

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Having worked both sides of the customer service issue over the years, some tips I've found effective:

1) Start off telling them how much you've enjoyed doing business with them in the past, and that you would like to continue to do so.

2) Don't ask them what they intend to do to address your complaint, tell them what you believe will be a satisfactory resolution. (Note: Asking for a replacement, your money refunded, and the manager drawn & quartered is generally considered "bad form.")

3) Be disgustingly polite. Don't rant & rave. (The "squeaky wheel gets the grease", while true, only gets enough "grease" to shut it up.) However, don't go away - persistence pays off.

4) And finally, write everything down. Who you talked to, when, what was said/promised, etc. This can be amazingly useful when someone says, "Well, I don't know who told you that, because that's never been our policy..."

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
mk86fcc is 100% correct. Do exactly as he says.

You've paid for the firearm and should have no problem getting it back. Then you can handle sending it in for repair.

You may want to also make a contact in the states attorney's office now. They will be happy to give you advice on documenting everything. Do not give them the business name at this time. You don't want a pre-mature phone call to go to the dealer. That would be alienating. If none of the above works you will need to make a phone call and have a very quick inquirey call from the states attorney's office to the dealer. They will be calling to verify the facts. This usually gets the job done. I'm also quite confident that they will not be too interested in a firearm residing somewhere besides with the owner for such a long period of time without justification.
 
Oleg--sorry to hear about your Winchester. I saw a new Winchester the other day whose quality was way down (it was not a shotgun, though, but a 9422 Legacy). I hope this isn't an indication of things to come.

Some of the gunshops in my area will exchange a gun or refund the purchase price, especially for a regular customer who bought the gun new but found it to be defective within about 30 days of purchase. Other shops consider all deals to be final, although they may be willing to help get the gun fixed, as yours seems to be.

Anyway, I asked my regular dealer to ship a gun to the factory for me about three weeks ago and it's still sitting in his shop. He, too, is waiting to accumulate several guns before shipping mine. At one time, the delay would have bothered me. This time, though, I'm trying to be patient, because I found out that he has a harder time shipping guns nowadays. The nearby UPS-affiliated "mailbox" shop where he used to do his shipping no longer accepts guns. So he has to drive farther and put up with more hassle. I think he appreciates that I'm willing to wait.

Once the factory receives the gun, a one-month turnaround is about average.

FWIW, I usually prefer to get a gun repaired under warranty than to exchange it. Sometimes a trip back to the factory has resulted in a better gun than I'd have gotten otherwise.

Best of luck.



[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited February 03, 2000).]
 
The store should not hold up your shipment as long as you are paying for the shipping. If they are paying shipping and want to wait they should have explained their policy up front.
I work part time in a gun store. Our store policy is printed on a large sign at the check out counter and stamped on every receipt.
We are not responsible for the manufacturers defects or warranty. You can send it back yourself or we will, but you pay shipping.
Last night a man returned a rifle he had us order. We made $25 on the deal. It was defective so he brought it back and wanted us to send it back for him. He was upset about having to pay the UPS charges, but still wanted it sent. Then he tells us that his wife put a stop payment on the check. Well the check was made out to our store, so we are out that money, plus the warehouse wants a restocking fee from us.
What did we do wrong?
A small store will go out of business very quickly if they give everyone their money back because the manufacturer was at fault. The profit margin just isn't as high on our firearms as everyone thinks.
I feel a little better know. Rant mode off.

Neil Casper
 
The store is paying shipping. I might just let this slide and learn my lesson: about half of the guns I bought at that store had problems, big or small. I have not had such trouble with any other place...
 
If you want them to speed up the process why don't you just offer to pay the shipping cost? Sounds reasonable to me.
 
Guess I am just used to dealing with computer/photo vendors who do all they can to keep me happy. The attitude of some gun dealers is unpleasant enough to make me drive further to better stores instead of shopping on the way home from work.

pt.2 And I am not talking about better returns policy but rather sullen and unfriendly customer service.

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited February 03, 2000).]
 
I don't mean this in a mean way at all, but what if the government gets involved in regulating computer/photo vendors and driving them out of business. Then it will be a sellers market in that field.

Neil Casper
 
Aren't they supposed to test-fire these guns BEFORE they leave the factory? About 10 years ago, you almost never heard of defective firearms. The only ones I ever heard of were due to reasonable wear and tear on the part of the owner, and the factory would still "hop to it" and insure that customer was happy. Since I've been on this board, I've heard a bunch of people getting ganked. Makes me afraid to buy anything new.
 
Oleg--I know what you mean about the sullen and unfriendly attitude of some gun dealers, although I guess gun dealers are no more apt to be rude than anyone else. You'd think that they'd treat their customers like allies in a common cause. But, as you know, sometimes that's just not the case. The biggest gun shop in my area is like that--hostile to anyone who presumes to enter. :confused:

Anyway, I finally found a (much smaller) gun shop nearby, where the owner and clerks are so helpful and courteous that they practically treat their customers like family. What a difference! That's my kind of gun shop. :)
 
I wish this were an isolated incident. But it's not. The gun shops I've been into rarely have good service. That's why I don't feel bad about buying guns at gun shows. If a gun shop will not give you "extra service", why pay higher prices?
 
Some shops do, some do not. I used to spread the money around a little. However, this one place is no my list of places to avoid. Waaay too many problems (which is understandable) and bad attitude about fixing them.
 
My experiences in the past have proven it's easier to just take the item back, request refund, and move on. Politeness is the key to sucess. For one, you're already unsatisfied about what's happened, why add to it?

Second, the vendor is trying to minimize their cost by consolidating shipments, for cost sake. You should have been made aware of that policy when you took the item back. That you weren't is excusable though. Again, patience is the key to you satisfaction.

I had a similar occurence with a Savage rifle I'd bought on the internet. Soooo, I had to do all the footwork myself. And drop the cost of shipment again. But, Savage was more than apologetic about the problem, and reimbursed me for the shipment, so it really wasn't all that bad.

If I keep tossing two dents away like this, I'll be broke soon.

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
 
If you paid with a credit card, dispute the charge now, by phone and in writing, with the issuer. Document that you received a non-working product, and that the dealer was unwilling to provide a replacement or a timely repair. CC the dealer. This will generally get results.

Using a credit card sometimes causes an upcharge by a merchant, but the 2-3% can be worth it if there's a dispute later.
 
MAN!...glad I'm not behind the counter anymore! I can't imagine running a shop like that, and I'm glad I'm out! In the shop I managed you would never have even seen that gun. I did detail stripping and cleaning to EVERY gun that came in; new or used. They were all READY TO SHOOT when they left the store. No packing grease, no styrofoam chunks in the action, etc. it was ready to GO. And another rarity these days, I actually showed the customer HOW to FIELD STRIP & Clean whatever they bought, and let them know about any little ideosyncrasies of a particular gun. These methods saved me from a bunch of possible headaches. Too many places just throw them on the rack/shelf and wait for the $$$. The guns on the rack look like S**T....Pathetic! These days, with the "get-paid-and get-it-out-the-door" attitude of most of the shops I've seen, you are MUCH better off contacting the manufacturer DIRECTLY with any problem. Eliminate the dealer from the equation if you can, unless you've found a GOOD shop....and they're rare. Take Care & Good Luck- Dakotan
 
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