Stand up - be counted! No more anonymous postings - pending Colorado legislation

L

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
I appologize right off for the length of the attached but not for its content. It's time for each & everyone of us to stand up, be counted & no more deleted names, #s, etc.

Maybe use this thread to post effective letters to the editor, electeds, whatever. ?

Any comments to be more effective would be most welcome.

AA (damn, it was already took when I signed up :(/Labgrade)

You got my name & home phone # .... will still use "labgrade" as I actually got called by that on the street the other day ... kinda proud of that.

Sent this out today to some other fellow (& fellettes ;)) gun nuts. Colorado's legislature will convene 1/5 & according to reports, the first items on the agenda will be gun control now that we have all had a break from the Columbine Tragedy (it's been in the local news everyday). We can now enact "common sense" gun control. Never mind that The Guvness himself has publically stated that none of the proposed legislation would have prevented what happened at Columbine.

There's to be 5 main proposals which I'm just too PO'd right now to list. You can catch the drift of some from the 2nd letter.
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This went out to the nuts .... God bless you all!

"This sent in reply to some queries back & forth between myself and MIke Cileitti (Mike@cologop.org) who is the Colorado GoP Political Director. His job is to ensure re-election of Colorado's currently-in-office GoP (duh) guys & gals. Mike does seem sympathetic to my views, but, his job is as stated above - 'nuff said.

Please, forward to everybody in CO on all your gunlists, whatever. Personally, I've had it with our weenie Guv. Below this "conversation is the letter I sent out to The Guv earlier today. Feel free to post it as well - leave my name & #s on if you like.

Time to stand up and be counted.

AA/labgrade

Sorry, as much as an a-hole can be ;-), for the length ..."

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Albertus [mailto:aa1@rmi.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:13 PM
To: Mike Ciletti
Subject: RE: gun control legislation

I'm getting the standard automatic "we've received your letter & thanks - don't send attachments, etc."

Other than that, nothing. After only the first letter did I receive a printed reply saying pretty much the party line (these days) re the school violence summit findings, etc. Nothing since. Don't expect it either - I'm on the Hot List as I express a view not popular with the current state administration's latest stance.

Gotta tell ya, Mike. Plenty pissed off people. The gun show background check will be extended to all private sales if passed. It won't do hoot to stop violence & next year, we'll all be back at the same - nature of the beast - incrementalism because, just as you know, the Governor knows - none of this legislation will stop a damned thing. It makes us all (well, not all) feel good as if we're doing something.

I, for one, will never register a firearm and will never again buy any registered transaction firearm. I've bought plenty through normal FFL channels & have had my name, etc. duly recorded on the 4473. I'm on record as a purchaser of several firearms. And, being so disgusted with the system, I've sold most all - private sales where transactions are still up to honest individuals who know & respect one another. Didn't even get or receive receipts, etc. as a steady look in the eye and a handshake suffices for honest men. In fact, I'm going to buy quite a few more firearms and legally flood the market (best I can) with completely untraceable firearms (to any reputable person, BTW).

Politicians lie their ass off the get elected & just get better at it to remain there. I believed Mr. Owens when he said he would stand up for the constitution (CO & Federal) - I discussed issues with him live on talk radio, voted my conscience gladly (for him), watched him take that oath & he's rolled like a cheap whore. He allows any of this crap to go through - ANYONE (Dem or Repub) who runs against him gets my monetary, vocal support (I am hot on the keyboard - have twitchy fingers these days ;-) & plenty of time). I am posting a topic on an internet forum board, I am sending off a letter to all on my GUNCONTROL address book (in excess of 200 people who also have their own) & I hope to do about a 1/2 hour on talk radio this afternoon detailing Mr. Owens' past & present re his stances ...

... wait, Mike, the wind's blowing and I haven't heard an official statement from The Guv. How strange.

I have completely had it with "our electeds" and am absolutely disgusted with their attitudes. Being re-elected is their only consideration - has not a whit to do with any truths. Won't they stand up and state the facts; there's bad people out there, they do bad things to each other and us, we can't stop it through legislation.

How about a summit that consists of good street cops (those that aren't appointed political pukes - they, at least, trust the law-abiding citizen & count us as allies), maybe a few of us law-abiding folks. Perhaps listen to those of us who elected him rather than the feel-good-fuzzy idiots.

Many are saying the Republicans are worse than the Dems as the Repubs lie - we know the Dems are gonna screw us. Many believe that about the Repubs now, too; only we are moreso disgusted by the Repubs because we once trusted them

Mike, you're the Colorado GoP Political Director & as I understand, your job is to ensure any & all GoP electeds' re-election. Pass on this letter if you want. My electeds will get it in due time anyway.

No more bull**** words. We want demonstrated actions that serve the community; not this pap that does nothing but piss off your constituency.

AA

Alan Albertus
(970) 667-7256 - anytime

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The Honorable Bill Owens
136 State Capitol Building
Denver, CO 80203

Subject: No Gun Control this year

Dear Sir:

Although no legislation has yet been written or proposed, I am concerned as to the course this year’s legislation appears to be taking. All local papers report that there will be (at least ) five new proposals considered in this years’ Legislature.

You yourself, Sir, are quoted as saying that none of the newer proposals would have stopped the tragedy at Columbine.

What is it that you hope to accomplish?

18 year-olds are currently banned from purchasing a handgun by federal law. However, they may vote, enter into all legal contracts, and die in the service of our country. A state law is redundant and a slap in their face.

Background checks are already performed at gun show as they are through any FFL transaction. The "loophole fix" will, as we all know, require background checks on private sales at gun shows. An interesting proposition, as currently there is no method in place for a private individual to gain CBI access to perform such a check. Too, since this "doesn’t go far enough," it will create another "loophole" for those private sales through newspapers or "transfers" to sons, daughters, wives, and close acquaintances. I’m certain that next years’ legislation will close this (and any other) "loopholes" which are overlooked in this session.

"Safe Storage" legislation isn’t. Those who are responsible have already taken steps to ensure that their firearms won’t fall into unsafe hands, and no legislation will accommodate those who aren’t. And how will this legislation affect those persons who will need, in the future, a firearm to protect themselves and loved ones from criminal assault?

We lawful firearm owners are continually required to "compromise" but never get anything in return except a continual incremental erosion of our rights.

I have seen no mention of a proposed State Preemption Bill which would rid Colorado of Denver’s draconian "car confiscation law."

Why not propose some actual compromise legislation that protects and enhances the rights of the law-abiding citizens? Tie some pro-gun owner measures into each anti-gun and I suspect that you would have more support from the general populace as we may the be able to reach some consensus. That, after all is the definition of compromise.

Sincerely,

Alan Albertus
3608 Ranch Road
Loveland, CO
(970) 667-7256

CC: Doug Dean, Mike Celitti, Bill Kaufman, Stan Matsunaka
 
Gov. Owens is just what everyone should have expected him to be--a politician. When I heard him on Mike Rosen's radio talk show spewing his politician's rhetoric when asked about a statewide CCW, I knew we were in trouble.

The Republican party hasn't shown me squat. They are STILL letting the Democrats set the agenda, mainly because the Republicans have no real principles, at least none they aren't willing to compromise. And if you're willing to compromise your principles, you aren't fit for dog meat.

Why the HELL doesn't the Republican party come out and unequivocally state these are the principles we stand for (whatever they might be), now take us or leave us? Where is the leadership?! There is a vast section of the American public just waiting for someone to say: "We hold the Constitution in the highest esteem, and we will use it, without embellishment, as our guide when governing the people. The individual is of eminent importance, not groups or society. We will protect your right to peacefully live life to the best of your abilities, without apology to, or permission from, any person, group, or government." Wait a minute, I think the Libertarian party says essentially that. The Republicans could learn something from them.

Any real change ain't gonna come from either of the two main parties, so you can all forget that. In fact, the system has been so bastardized that peaceful change has become as illusion. In the generations to come, it will all come to a head and require a vigorous lancing.
DAL

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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
 
Dal: They don't do that, (State their principles, and say "Take us or leave us!) because we'd leave them.

The thing you have to understand about most Republican officeholders, even some of the nominally pro-gun ones, is that they are ASHAMED to be seeking our support. If they could get by without us, they would. That's why they betray us everytime someone manages to persuade them that they can get away with it.

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
http://www.denverpost.com/news/leg/leg0104z.htm

By Mike Soraghan
Denver Post Capital Bureau

Jan 4 - Though the powerful National Rifle Association is not officially opposing any of Gov. Bill Owens' gun-control proposals, it is warning members to prepare for a big fight over gun laws in the legislative session that begins Wednesday.
"With their allies in the media, the gungrabbers won't be pulling any punches, nor wasting any time in pulling out their antigun propaganda machine," said a letter inviting Colorado NRA members to legislative workshops this week and next. The Nov. 26 letter refers to the session at the Colorado Capitol, as well as proposals expected in Washington, D.C.
Gun-control supporters in the state Legislature say the NRA is distorting what they're doing.
"No one is talking about trying to take away anyone's gun," said House Minority Leader Ken Gordon, D-Denver. "The only thing we're talking about is trying to make it harder for people who shouldn't have guns to get them." NRA spokesman Jim Manown said the letter was intended to let members know that gun legislation is being proposed and that it could cause problems for gun owners. The NRA has an estimated 60,000 members in Colorado.
"This letter is a letter to our members to let them know of potential bad legislation that may be coming down the pike, depending on how it is written," Manown said.
The letter talks of "gun-grabbers" and mentions specific proposals, including: "gun rationing, prohibitions on private transfers of firearms, registration and licensing schemes, mandatory storage requirements, and an increase in the minimum-age requirements for lawful firearm purchases." Proposals on slate
Owens, who was supported by the NRA in his 1998 election campaign, has five gun-control proposals: requiring background checks on private sales at gun shows, criminal penalties for not storing guns safely, raising the age for handgun purchases at gun shows from 18 to 21, including juvenile records in criminal background checks, and allowing local authorities to prosecute people who buy guns for criminals and children, called "straw purchases." House Majority Leader Doug Dean, R-Colorado Springs, who works closely with the NRA, said the letter indicates that the NRA won't oppose Owens' proposals on straw purchases or juvenile records. He said the reference to "private sales"
demonstrates the group's opposition to background checks at gun shows.
"What they're probably talking about is background checks at gun shows, and they oppose that," Dean said.
Manown has said the group is skeptical of such proposals but willing to work with legislators on the issue.
Dudley Brown, executive director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, says the letter proves the NRA wants members to believe it's fighting hard for gun rights, while the group's lobbyists prepare to compromise.
"They're more interested in going to cocktail parties with Gov. Owens," Brown said. "They're not going to call all their members and tell them to vote against Gov. Owens' proposals." Brown's group, which considers the NRA too moderate, is sending letters to members about the coming fight over gun control.
The message, distributed by e-mail, asks whether Dean and Owens are "traitors." It accuses them of "teaming up with Bill Clinton, (national gun-control advocate) Sarah Brady, and other anti-gunners to stab you and other law-abiding gun owners of Colorado in the back." Dean was angered by the letter.
"They lied," Dean said Tuesday. "They're out there trying to raise money by calling me Gov. Owens' lapdog and saying I'm trying to pass his gun bills. I oppose most of them."


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sic gorgiomus allos subjectos nunc!

more flavorful in Latin, but ....

we gladly feast on those who would subdue us
 
Bill Swenson out of Longmont is pro-gun to the max. He wants state preemption.

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.


[This message has been edited by jimpeel (edited January 05, 2000).]
 
I'm about three months away from becoming a Colorado resident.

If CCW isn't enacted by the time I get there, Bill Owens will be looking for a new line of work come 2002, and so will a lot of his GOP "comrades".

It's all about control. They want all gun sales to go through FFL holders only, so that they can then exert control over those FFL holders and seriously undermine the ability of the Average Joe out there to arm himself.
 
"'They lied,' Dean said Tuesday. 'They're out there trying to raise money by calling me Gov. Owens' lapdog and saying I'm trying to pass his gun bills. I oppose most of them.'"

MOST of them? He should be opposing ALL of them and, in fact, proposing pro-gun bills.


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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
Oatka, I CC'd Dean on my tirade (home & office). Only been a day & hey, he's busy. Methinks he doth protest too much. & you're right, if anybody's "pro gun," they ought to be out there proposing decent bills, not just "standing against the antis."

& Musgrave's supposed to be presenting state-wide CCW (again) & will probably be shot down in committee (a la Dottie Wham).
 
Here's an e-mail I received from the Colorado State Shooting Association (CSSA):


Dear CSSA members,

You may have recently received an email from one or two other "gun rights" groups implying that Rep. Doug Dean is a traitor to this fight to protect our gun rights. This attack on Rep. Dean is totally unwarranted, backstabbing McCarthyism at its worst.

It is very strange to me that the "gun rights" groups lobbing these attacks are focusing on someone who supports the 2nd Amendment, rather than the people trying to destroy it. There are plenty of legitimate targets out there.

Why are they going after our friends instead of our enemies?

Doug Dean is 100% committed to defending our gun rights. He does not support the Governor's gun control agenda. He does not support background checks or registration of private sales at gun shows, or raising the age to purchase guns to 21, or mandatory trigger locks, or mandatory "safe storage", or banning so-called "assault weapons", or anything else that would infringe upon our 2nd Amendment rights. He is our friend, not our enemy.

CSSA, the Firearms Coalition and NRA have all been working closely with each other, with Rep. Dean and others in the state legislature to make sure anti-gun bills fail and pro-gun bills pass this session. Our valuable time should not have to be taken up dealing with these ridiculous rumors, reassuring our members that Doug Dean is not a traitor, and there is no boogieman under the bed.

One member wrote after getting these "poison pen" messages asking what he should believe. I told him, if he hears it from CSSA, believe it.

We're all part of the same team. Tripping our teammates doesn't help us win the game, it helps the other side. If any of you have questions about this, feel free to call us at the office, 720-283-1376.

I would also suggest that if you're inclined to make a donation to help defend your gun rights, you send it to CSSA at PO Box 473101, Aurora, CO 80047-3101. I promise your money won't be wasted attacking our fellow teammates.

Aimee Rathburn, Executive Director


You be the judge.
DAL

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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
 
Re Dean - I'll give him the benefit of the doubt till I see how he supports or doesn't, the already proposed anti-gun/freedom bills.

CSSA's the Colorado NRA local arm. We'll see how they come up.

I'm nuetral in beating anybody up till I see 'em actually supporting BS. Wait & see.

Our illustrious Governor Bill Owens however, in his address & state of the state address today (1/6) requested that the assy take up three gun control "safety measures." He did go on to say that none of his proposed ideas (he's executive branch BTW & can't propose legislation) would have done $#!+ to prevent Columbine.

There are huge coalitions being formed & the (generally) pro-gun groups will be at each others' throats (as they were last year pre-Columbine re state-wide CCW) - Rocky Mtn Gun Owners/GOA probably pitted against CSSA/NRA & each will have to counter SAFE/HCI, etc.

Personally, I'll use every personal resource to fight against ANY further intrusion to my (or anybody else's) rights - all comers & all fronts. NO compromise & no quarter.
 
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