Stainless USFA 1860 or not?

A

arcticap

New member
I spied a used USFA 1860 with box at my local gunshop yesterday. It was down behind the counter because the owner still hadn't set the price on it yet.
I briefly checked it out and asked if it was stainless steel or not and the clerk showed that it attracted a magnet, but that's not a positive indication.
It has sort of a plain grey steel look to it that isn't like the typical brightly polished current stainless steel models that I'm used to seeing. The steel didn't look really white.
And at first glance, I noticed that one of the cylinder bolt slots had some surface oxidation.
IIRC the USFA's were assembled using Uberti parts.
For comparison, does anyone know whether Uberti's stainless guns are magnetic or not? How about the licensed stainless Colt 1860's that were made with Uberti parts, were they?
Someone recently reported that their new stainless steel ASM was non-magnetic.
And I've read threads clearly indicating that there are 2 different kinds of stainless, magnetic and non-magnetic.
Lastly does anyone have any information about this USFA model and its possible value?
When I first cocked the gun I thought that it felt a little bit sluggish like maybe the wedge was too tight or it had a weak spring. But it seemed to improve with each cocking. Overall it appeared to be a tight, precision made revolver. I know that members have expressed interest in stainless 1860's, but how to determine whether it's stainless or not?
Maybe the price will be an indication.
It has a 4 digit serial number. Maybe an inquiry to USFA would reveal whether they assembled any stainless guns or not.
It was the first USFA that I've seen. Too bad I didn't have a camera with me.

Final note: A response on THR indicated that the licensed stainless Colt 1860's are magnetic.
 
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Arcticap, all I can offer is that the Euroarms Stainless Steel Rem I had the Barrel and Frame were magnetic...the cylinder & webbed loading lever was non-magnetic.
I have a Ruger Police Service Six in Stainless Steel and it is all magnetic.
Wish I had more info for you.
 
For comparison, does anyone know whether Uberti's stainless guns are magnetic or not? How about the licensed stainless Colt 1860's that were made with Uberti parts, were they?
Someone recently reported that their new stainless steel ASM was non-magnetic.
And I've read threads clearly indicating that there are 2 different kinds of stainless, magnetic and non-magnetic.
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2nd Gen SS 1851 Navy, circa 1982 - Barrel & frame - magnetic; Cylinder, backstrap, triggerguard & loading lever, non-magnetic.
2nd Gen SS 1860 Army, circa 1982 - Barrel & frame - Magnetic; Cylinder, backstrap, triggerguard, loading lever - non-magnetic.
Uberti SS 1851 Navy, 1982 date code - Barrel - magnetic; Frame, cylinder, backstrap, triggerguard, loading lever - non-magnetic.

Cant speak to Remmie clones - don't own any in SS (or CCH either for that matter)
 
All stainless steel attracts a magnet. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon, it's the iron that attracts a magnet. So for it to be steel, it has to have a varying percentage of iron in it. The only thing required for it to be "stainless" is the addition of at least 11% (if I remember that right) chromium. Therefore, the magnet test is not really valid.

Even so, the USPFA percussion guns would've been completely fit and finished from raw forgings from Uberti. Not just assembled of Uberti parts. They have never used stainless steel so if it is a "white" finish, it's either in the white or some sort of plating. If it's a soft brushed finish, it's probably in the white.
 
All stainless steel attracts a magnet. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon, it's the iron that attracts a magnet. So for it to be steel, it has to have a varying percentage of iron in it. The only thing required for it to be "stainless" is the addition of at least 11% (if I remember that right) chromium. Therefore, the magnet test is not really valid.
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Hogwash. All SS does NOT attract a magnet (like, 300 series).

Nonmagnetic stainless steels have different grain structures than 'plain' steels, and that's what makes them nonmagnetic.

Google 'austenite' for an education.
 
I stand corrected. Doesn't change the fact that the magnet test does not determine whether or not it is stainless steel or the fact that USFA never used stainless. But thanks for the attitude. :rolleyes:
 
Even so, the USPFA percussion guns would've been completely fit and finished from raw forgings from Uberti. Not just assembled of Uberti parts. They have never used stainless steel so if it is a "white" finish, it's either in the white or some sort of plating. If it's a soft brushed finish, it's probably in the white.
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I can appreciate that information as far as I think that you're referring to USFA and not Uberti.
I now believe that the USFA probably is just plain, brushed steel since it has such a simple plain steel color.
However I can't imagine what kind of plating that USFA or any other major manufacturer would use to duplicate the look of plain steel.
But how do you know that USFA didn't make any 1860's in stainless? Is that found or deduced from a BP price guide or reference book etc...?
Another reason for asking is that some [smaller] companies might produce a limited run or # of prototypes based on a small batch of sample parts which aren't necessarily advertised due to their limited availability.
 
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But how do you know that USFA didn't make any 1860's in stainless? Is that found or deduced from a BP price guide or reference book?
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6th edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms listing for USFA states "USFA manufactured reproduction Colt percussion revolvers from 1995 to 2000." "All guns have color case hardened (bone) frames, hammers & loading levers, dome blue barrels and cylinders, silver plated backstraps & triggerguards, exceptions will be noted' None of the individual model descriptions list a SS exception.
 
Thanks for trying so hard.
It's always fun to speculate. :)
I could be wrong but I don't recall seeing any case coloring on this piece at all, especially not on the frame.
I suppose that anyone could have brushed it and maybe USFA would be able to confirm that.
However, USFA does have quite a custom shop today and maybe back then they also offered options for custom finishing?
What are some of the values of USFA C&B's?
 
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Here's the page out of the book.
USFApage.png
 
Fingers -

The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms, while a very useful and more often than not correct reference, is not definitive. It does contain several errors (mostly omissions, but sometimes inclusions) regarding model features and sometimes even entire models.

I don't know whether it is correct with respect to USFA entries, but I advise caution in using it as authoritative.
 
But it does if the magnet don't stick
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Apparently it can go either way with either steel.


But how do you know that USFA didn't make any 1860's in stainless?
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Because USFA doesn't do stainless. It is not traditional. A white finish with a soft brushed luster is.

Brushed hard chrome can be a close match to unfinished steel. White carbon steel and stainless are virtually indistinguishable and chrome is often used to match stainless. Silver plate is also very similar.

USFA has always produced non-catalogued guns on special order. I have an all-blue US"P"FA SAA .45Colt that was not a catalog item.
 
I made a bet with a guy at a Gun Show, that any S.S. rated gun there, would attract a magnet. There are many grades of S.S. and any used on the parts that see pressure or need strength, are magnetic. If not, You are looking for trouble. Don't know for how long he looked but never got back to me. In fact, I think he just left, after a time. I own a Lyman S.S. DeerStalker. All thet trim is non-magnetic S.S., even the lock plate and hammer but the barrel is magnetic. Might add, that this is a "Hawken-Style" side lock. ;) :eek:


Be Safe !!!
 
Today one of the salesman said that they were trying to get info. on the piece from USFA in order to place a value on it, that someone was interested in buying it and that the gun has been held up for a couple of weeks now because of it.
This salesman said that the pistol was in the white and was part of a project that USFA never followed through on to completion.
He also said to call back later if I wanted to speak to one of the owners about it.

If the gunshop sets the price too high then the buyer might back out.
The gun shop doesn't seem to know enough about this particular USFA gun yet either.
 
Mykeal,

I know that the BB is rife with errors & omissions and should only be used as a guide. I included it as one source of information to use as a starting point. Arcticap asked for a source, I provided one.
 
Because USFA doesn't do stainless. It is not traditional. A white finish with a soft brushed luster is.
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That makes good sense and I believe it.

I do appreciate posting the reference guide values too because most of us don't have it and the USFA's are hardly ever discussed.

The Blue Book doesn't mention USFA C&B's, but just by looking for info. in it I noticed that they list a USFA 1851 Richards Navy Conversion in .38 special and it wasn't inexpensive having an MSRP of $1300. :)
 
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Fingers McGee said:
I know that the BB is rife with errors & omissions and should only be used as a guide. I included it as one source of information to use as a starting point. Arcticap asked for a source, I provided one.
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I understand. Apologies for my tone; I didn't mean to come across so stridently.
 
Hello articap,

I stumbled across this rather old thread and was curious as to what ever became of the USFA 1860 Army Richards conversion mentioned in your inquiry. Were you successful in purchasing it, or did it go to someone else?

I noticed there was a lot of conversation regarding whether this piece was stainless steel or in-the-white or some other finish. I offer the possibility that it could be an electroless nickel finish. It may be of interest to know that a handful of Colt second generation 1860 Armies were produced with an electroless nickel finish. It has a dull brushed look similar to gray in-the-white as well as the brushed low lustre variation of stainless steel finishes.

It may also be of interest to know that stainless steel Colt second generation1860 Armies were produced in two variations. Early serial numbered guns tend have a brushed low lustre finish while late serial number guns tend to have a polished bright finish.

Regarding the detection of stainless steel, a distinguishing feature of all stainless steel Colt second generation percussion revolvers (1860 Army, 1861 Navy and 1851 Navy) is the fact that the cylinder, loading lever, and grip straps do not attract a magnet. This would also probably be true for any stainless steel USFA percussion revolver since both Colt and USFA percussion revolvers have a similar heritage - Uberti. However, I am not aware of any stainless steel revolvers produced by USFA. Most likely the USFA 1860 Army you are considering is regular steel - either in-the-white or as mentioned earlier, electroless nickel.

One additional clue might be the trigger guard. If the trigger guard is brass, I would say with almost 100% certainty that the remainder of the gun would be standard steel - not stainless steel.

I hope this helps.
 
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