SS pin wet tumbling , interesting observations already

M

Metal god

New member
So I just started using the Frankford arsenal rotary tumbler and I've already found some things out . I'd like to know some of your observations you've noticed over time .

First thing is that on the whole it's a lot more work then dry tumbling . Filling , rinsing , separating pins , drying takes time and effort that dry tumbling does not . It's worth the extra effort IMO do to all the reduced airborne particulates as well as the cases actually being clean . My dry tumbler would leave a unseen film on the cases that was only noticed on your hands after working with the brass for a given amount of time . This is not the case after wet tumbling . I have my 18 month old grandson living in the house at this time and it's the reason went to wet tumbling . I feel this reduces the potential amount of contaminates I will transfer through out the house .

Second is that more brass in the tumbler seems to be better then less brass . I've tried half full and almost full and the almost full batch came out much cleaner and more shinny .

Third , I like to multi task so I mix calibers when I tumble . If you don't deprime first 308 & 9mm don't work well together . The 9mm will slip over the 308 neck trapping the water inside . This only sucks when you don't notice them and you think your brass is dry only to have to go through and pull those apart draining the water and then letting them dry another 24hrs+ .

Other ones that don't play well together is 223 and 45acp . when the 223 case is inside the 45 case . The pins are just the right size to to slip in between the two locking them together . Some are quite difficult to separate.

IutEn2.jpg


Those are some of my early observations . What have you found that's a good thing to know about wet SS pin tumbling ???
 
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I have a Frankford Arsenal ss pin tumbler. And everything you mentioned is all covered ground for me. Been there. Done that.

SS pin tumbling is more labor intensive than vibra-tumbling. (I actually do both - vibra tumble; recondition brass for reloading; then ss pin tumble.) You have to deal with the solution/water, rinsing, the pins, and the drying. It's a lot of work. I guess it comes down to how clean you want your brass. Me, I don't mind at all. Before I start the reload process, I want clean brass - inside, out, and primer pockets. SS pin tumbling does that for me.

Heh heh - mixing calibers is a bad thing :p But you know that now. I'll mix 9mm with 38/357; and I'll mix 45 ACP with 44Spl/Mag. 10mm & 40 can go together - obviously. Basically if one can fit into the other, you can't tumble them together.

And then there's the ss pins getting caught in the primer pockets. This happens far more often (95+%) with large pockets, rather than small. They are no fun to remove, btw. I've wrecked a couple pairs of tweezers trying. I finally figured out that if they don't come out easily with tweezers, take them over to your universal de-capper. That'll pop 'em out.

Anyway, it's more work. I've got some 200 pcs of 45 ACP layed out on a towel on the floor, drying right now. I just came back from the range, so more is on the way - it's a never-ending cycle :p

Regarding bigger batches working better. I observed that when I was using Dawn/Lemi-shine. But not now. I use RCBS ultra-sonic cleaner now - and it works perfect every time. None-the-less, I still like to tumble large batches if it's at all practical to do so. It's just more efficient all-around.
 
Besides what you have already learned (separate your brass) here are a couple more lessons learned:

1. washing and rinsing in the house or in any sink is NOT advised. as sure as the sun rises n sets your will end up with some pins in the sink trap or worse garbage disposal. I do all of my rinsing outside on a concrete pad. Pins floating in the suds can be retrieved off the concrete with a magnet.

2. Rinsing. I have a dillon case separator and once I have the brass in the separator I fill the tub to over flowing and let the water hose keep running while I slosh the drum around and back n forth for at least 5 minutes. Then I carefully dump the water without pouring pins out on the concrete, and then I repeat the process two more times. Skipping the sloshing in a full tub is certain to leave some pins inside the cases. suspended in water, the pins are heavy enough to move around and fall out. Otherwise the surface tension of the water will hold some of the pins inside the some cases.

3. drying. I dump mine out on to a large, heavy, dark colored beach towel. Kinda role the towel long wise and then grab by the ends and allow the brass to tumble back n forth inside the towel for a couple minutes. this will shake out most all of the water. The dark colored towel is so you can see and retrieve any pins that made it through the rinse cycles (and tell you if you are not adequately rinsing). I generally spread the brass out on a towel covered table (again outside) to take advantage of the Florida sun. They are completely dry in about 45 minutes and the brass will be almost too hot to handle.

That's my process and I've got down to the point that pins no longer make it to the drying towel. The idea of a pin staying in a case and getting spit into the barrel for the next round to find, just plain scares me.
 
As sure as the sun rises n sets you will end up with some pins in the sink.
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This is why I use the side of my kitchen sink without the garbage disposal. SS pins will tear up your disposal - those little guys are tougher than disposal blades.

And . . . I place magnets around the drain opening. They catch the pins. In fact, I have a strong magnet handy whenever I'm dealing with the pins. There's never been a time when it didn't come in handy.
 
as sure as the sun rises n sets your will end up with some pins in the sink trap or worse garbage disposal.
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I don't have a disposal :eek: yep living in the dark ages over here :D

I place magnets around the drain opening. They catch the pins. In fact, I have a strong magnet handy whenever I'm dealing with the pins.
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I use the magnet pin collector to keep them from going down the drain . First thing I did was seal every crack , seam & rivet on the magnet body . I heard if water gets inside they start to stink so I sealed mine up . So now I just place it over the drain and it catches any pins that fall out . Now that's the initial water dump from the rotor drum when close to no pins even come out . I just slowly dump as much water out as I can before stuff starts falling out .

I then use the media separator with cage and bucket to dispense of the rest of the water and pins . The pins fall to the bottom of the bucket where I pick them out with the magnet . I then rinse the brass in the sink while still in the cage . Go back to the bucket for a few more spins then dumped onto a towel .

I haven't had any pins stick in the flash holes yet , at least I don't think I have :o

You know the more I write about this the more I think this is a real PITA .:)
 
I use the vibratory with the corn cob media. I wash my brass with dish soap and water and let it dry overnight. I then drop it in the vibratory cleaner with corn cob media that I add an ounce of car wax every 4 or 5 cleanings. I have a "quiet" box that the cleaner operates in so there is no dust and minimal noise and bright shiny brass.

If you have stainless that a magnet can grip it is low quality stainless. I am just trying to wrap my head around this process. It seems to be a lot more labor intensive. I wash, rinse, and let it dry overnight. Then I throw it in the vibratory cleaner for 3 hours and I am done. The wax acts as a case lubricant so my rifle brass is ready to go.

What am I missing? What is the advantage of the stainless pins? I see it as a lot more labor intensive.
 
You know the more I write about this the more I think this is a real PITA.
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And let's not forget the drying of the pins between uses. Although that's no problem in the warm months, here under the California sun. heh

I suppose it all boils down to how important nice clean shiny brass is to you.

Speaking for myself - very.
 
It all comes down to the debris from tumbling and how of if your body can handle it and if you care that it gets spread into the house.

This is no different the doing the brakes on you car. The old way was to grab the air hose and blast that dust off the rotors or drums an backin plates and let it land where ever. Then some fifty years ago the folks that did the air hose method started dropping from cancer so a wet wash way was developed to keep the asbestos contained.
 
hartcreek:

Yep , that's the only reason I went to wet tumbling . To keep the contaminates to a minimum . I'm not sure If your the one that convinced me to go this route . I was part of another thread that talked about wet tumbling and the knowledge I learned there was the reason I switched . But I do remember someone talking about break dust in that other thread .

I suppose it all boils down to how important nice clean shiny brass is to you.
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I do like shinny brass but that's not the reason I went this route . Only reason is my grandson is in the house and my reloading room is one of the extra bedrooms . Therefore It's real easy for me to track all that fouling through the house .

I do have a vibrating tumbler with corn cob media that's cleaned thousands of cases and I'll still use it for final cleaning after sizing & trimming rifle cases . I how ever did throw out all the old/used media . Now all that will go into it are cases that have already been through the wet tumbler .

I forgot to mention that I had been manually cleaning primer pockets and case necks on all my rifle brass . I now can skip that step which really allowed powder and primer fouling to get all over the place . I'd try to keep it to one area but the fact I was manually doing it with brushes meant It got all over me . Now I don't have to do that .

Here is a video ( not mine ) of the rotary tumbler . Check out how black the water is when he first dumps the water out . All that crap stays in the dry media . As for the SS pins being low quality . You are correct . It's done on purpose so they can be picked up with a magnet . If you could not do that , OMG it would be ridiculously hard to separate and pick them up .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuDRzeZAgyA
 
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I'm with Oley, dark purple towels, 3 for $5 at the dollar store.
Doesn't matter if you are wiping dust from dry media or damp from wet tumbling...

Depending on 'Your' tumbler drive,
Schedule 40 PVC, end cap glued on, threaded clean out plug on the other end.
Some 1" or 1-1/8" PVC cut long ways glued and/or blind riveted in long ways to stir the brass/pins.
Cheap and nearly indestructible.
Makes for a good place to store brass away also.

Watch for a 'Slot' type sifter/pasta drainer.
Lets pins fall through without letting brass get away.
Plastic pan under sift to catch pins/water.

I've been doing 5,000 or so 5.56 NATO brass at a time,
Got a harbor freight cement mixer, welded up the seams,
Installed PVC stir blades.
Handles the weight, turns at the right speed, rotates to dump into an old cloths dryer drum with slots,
1/4 HP motor to turn dryer drum for seperation and drying.

Works pretty good, and I had something like it on a small scale using a pressure canner and large vegetable basket for tumbler drum and strainer.
Water catchment is up to your imagination.
I use the vegetable strainer to catch brass, heavy window screen to catch pins,
Water down the drain.

With the vegetable strainer, roll it a few times and throw it in the oven on low heat for about 20 minutes worked best for me.
At 'Warm' setting (appx 150*) it doesn't take long...
And a metal strainer takes the heat.
 
I don't know about 'High' or 'Low' quality Stainless Steel...

400 stainless 'Hard' is magnetic by design.
300 stainless family is 'Soft', again by design so it 'Self Heals' when scratched and doesn't rust.

For the OCD bunch, something like 316 food grade stainless is engineered to corrode/oxydize/resurface WITHOUT 'Rusting', no brown oxyidation (unless carbon/iron is introduced.
That's why it works so well for food service/solvents/caustics/corrosives.

Most of the 400 and up have carbon added to make them stronger/rigid,
That carbon WILL show up as 'Rust' when the surface is attacked by damage or chemicals and the oxyidation process.

The guy that dropped hard stainless pins in the disposer knows the difference!
I like being able to clean up with a yogurt cup slipped over a pole magnet,
The old back isn't what it used to be...
 
Jeephammer :

I've always considered SS that was magnetic a lesser quality . I do know this not to be accurate because I understand that SS has many uses . How it's made often will determine the quality for the use intended .

I should have worded that differently in other post . I how ever believe if the SS pins were not magnetic . They would be of poor quality for the intended use ;)
 
Metal God,
I agree, it would be a much harder job if they weren't magnetic!
I have 'Get Aways' when I sweep up, if they weren't magnetic they would be a real pain to sort out of the dirt/primers.
Being a little harder they last longer also.

I *Think* these might be from a needle bearing manufacturer.
Every once in a while I get a little pellet that kind of looks like a bearing being formed in the batch...
If it is, I wonder what the bearing manufacturers would sell them for without the middle men in the supply chain?

I resisted pins for the longest,
Tried 'Plastic' media we use at work for polishing/blasting,
Tried black volcanic sand, and white quartz sand.
Nothing quite as clean & good looking for home reloading as pins so far, but I have my eyes open!
 
Here are some observations & comments I have.

  • Don't over-do the dish soap, a single squirt per batch is enough. With too much soap the brass will come out very shiny as usual, but as it dries it will tarnish more quickly.
  • They sell the drop magnet gadget as an accessory, but it should be included because it is a MUST have!
  • I found a 3 gal rectangular bucket that laundry soap came in & this is very handy. Drain & rinse in the bucket & it is easy to pour off the water via one of the corners without losing a pin.
  • Use an old towel & place the wet, well rinsed brass on it & roll it up loosely & shake the load up-&-down & snap end-to-end. This will get most of the water off & you can pick-up the few remaining pins from the towel with the magnet.
Here is something I read but don't know much about. Apparently this SS pin polishing has been in industrial use for some time. There are many different sizes & shapes of pins. One reloader claimed he uses a "football" shaped pin for much better results(?) The idea here is that for very specific uses (calibers) different pins may be indicated, but sources & small quantities keeps us hobbyist somewhat restricted.

FWIW...

...bug
 
Some things I have learned during wet tumbling with pins.

If you have a casefeeder and need to process alot of dirty cases but don't want to dirty up the feeder assembly depriming all your brass, put cases in the tumbler minus the pins and let run 1/2 hour. Drain, shake off excess and let dry overnight. Then run cases through casefeeder for depriming with no mess.

The FA bucket with media separator does an excellent job when you fill with water and separate the pins from the brass.

A food dehydrator can be had on the cheap and is VERY handy if trying to clean brass and reload in the same day.

Dawn and Lemishine seem to work pretty well as a cleaning agent. But how do you stop the brass from tarnishing over time? Let you in on a little secret.
After the cleaning solution has done its thing, I drain and rinse the brass as well as possible while keeping it in the tumbler. I fill tumbler up with cold water and put in 3-4 drops of Meguiar's Ultimate Wash and Wax (car wash soap with a synthetic wax added in) and let that run for 20 minutes or so. Rinse well and dry like normal. You only use a very minimal amount of the car wash soap so that the cases get enough of the wax part on them to add a layer of protection. Kind of how a vibrating tumbler and whatever media additive you put in added a protective coating on the brass. The brass is cleaned well through the ss pin process so the synthetic wax adheres well. Have cases I tumbled over a year ago still looking as good as the day they came out of the tumbler.

After cleaning really grungy loads of once fired military brass, I like to run just the pins with some dawn and lemishine for about 20 minutes and clean out any residual dirt, crud, carbon, etc. Its probably overkill but in my head it makes sense.

A good strong magnet is indispensable.
 
I won't use my kitchen sink, or anywhere near food processing area, to process the wet tumbling. Lead in the kitchen is not kosher.

I don't do the tumbling in a real tumbler, but a 1/2 gallon plastic juice jug. I do the tumbling manually, 100 brass at a time. 15 min will do as I don't need the shine. When done I pour the dirty water from the jug. Refill and tumble for a minute to rinse. Repeat several time.

Then I dump all the brass into another container. Pick out the brass one at a time. Bang it light on the mouth of the container to rid it of pins. The brass will be towel dried and left for air dry. 24 hours usually suffices. 15 min under a bright sun will do the same.

The pins will mix with water and dumped back into the jug, through a funnel, for storage. I will pour as much water out of the jug as possible. Leave the jug uncapped so that the pins can dry up. They won't rust.

The dirty water only goes to the toilet. I do the processing in the laundry tub in the garage. When done I will thoroughly clean up the tub. BTW we never do laundry in that tub. It is for cleaning dirty stuff.

I never feel the need to use magnet. The pins are much manageable in water, where they just flow.

-TL
 
I like clean cases, and I thought that I was going to take this up, but you guys have definitely convinced me otherwise. Many thanks,
 
What I like about pins is absolutely clean cases!
Primer pockets, inside the cases, rim grooves, everything comes out clean as a whistle.

Brass (non-magnetic) screen to catch pins is cheap and easy to install in any drain bucket, bucket in a bucket arrangement, case spinners for round buckets are sold as dry media separators at any reloading supply.

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I got a laundry wash basin, cost about $35 at the home center on sale.
Epoxied a screen over the drain, right to the fiberglass/plastic.
Keeps pins from escaping, brass screen so the magnet doesn't grab hold of it.

Since this is dedicated to large volume of cases,
Stuck carriage bolts through the side down about 6" for the screen box to sit on,
Lower screen box catches pins.

Just above that, larger screen to catch cases,
Again, carriage bolts for it to rest on.

Most times, I don't use the case screen.
I have a round vegetable steaming basket for a pressure canner, dump water, pins & cases into it, roll it around.

Over the tub, I can run water to rinse the cases/pins.
I roll it on old skate board wheels/axles so I don't have to hold that heavy SOB up while turning it,
Smaller batches wouldn't be an issue...

For those with a 'Mud/Laundry' room, this might help out.
 
I recently bought a Thumbler and have done four or five loads of .30 Carbine so far.

Things I have learned:

1. Don't use Turtle Wash & Wax, as it turns the brass gray.
2. A tumbler media separator works well in separating water and pins from brass. Rinse the brass inside the Thumbler, poor into the separator and tumble. Then drain the water and poor the pins back into the Thumbler. Dry brass on a cookie sheet at 200F for 1/2 hour.
3. Get a rare earth magnet to pickup those individual pins that fall onto the counter or sink.
4. Two tablespoons of Dawn and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine is sufficient.
5. Lemishine is nothing more than powdered citric acid. You can get a big tub of the stuff for cheap from any women's hobby shop like Hobby Lobby.
 
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