Springfield vs. Hawken

Which would you choose and why?

  • Rocky Mountain Hawken

    Votes: 21 87.5%

  • Springfield 1861

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Total voters
    24
M

Model12Win

Moderator
Hello everyone!

I am in the market for a black powder rifle, I have the list narrowed down, but am currently torn between two different ones. These are:

Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in .54 caliber w/ maple stock:

hawken.jpg


http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Rocky-Mountain-Hawken-Rifle/706019.uts

Pedersoli Springfield 1861 Rifled Musket:

springfield.jpg


http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Springfield-Caliber-Musket/1389473.uts

Concerning the Hawken, I LOVE the looks of this rifle. I handled one of these with maple stock at a local Cabelas and the fit and finish was simply jaw dropping. I may well have bought it right there if it weren't .50 caliber and was instead a .54. I intend to get the .54 caliber version as I will be shooting patched round ball through this gun and it'll be for target shooting, plinking, and maybe just maybe whitetail hunting. I like the fact that it takes #11 percussion caps as these are much more available in my area vs. the musket caps the Springfield 1861 uses. The .54 round balls are also cheaper than the .58 Minie balls the Springfield uses. I know you can shoot roundball through the Springfield, but I'd want to shoot proper Minies in the 1861 and would have to take up casting to make it affordable. Seems like the .54 round balls wouldn't require that, I can find Hornady swaged .54 balls for relatively cheap online.

So, the Hawken seems like the practical answer. The components to fire it are both more available in my area and are significantly cheaper. It's a notably shorter rifle, more handy, and just more versatile all around. I greatly appreciate the Hawken rifle history and heritage and thing this iteration is outstandingly beautiful at least in the specimen I handled. Movies like Jeremiah Johnson sure can make a man pine for a Hawken!!

But...

Then there's the Springfield 1861 rifled musket!

Talk about history! I'm a very big Civil War enthusiast. I don't do reenactments or anything like that, but feel a deep connection to the war and have read numerous books on the subject, including several autobiographies of soldiers on both sides. It's a truly fascinating subject, and I have always wanted a Civil War rifled musket since I was young. If I got this gun, I'd want to shoot it just like the real soldiers did: with paper cartridges out of a cartridge box with accompanying cap pouch. I can easily imagine how fun it would be to do rapid reloading of the gun with cartridges, maybe tramping around with it in the creek back home. Seems like it'd be incredibly fun! I'd also just love to stretch it out on the 300 yard range I occasionally go to here in Kansas.

As fun as all of this would be, the necessity to find musket caps and Minie balls (at least for the true experience) would be a logistical challenge. The musket caps I suppose I could get online, but pre-cast Minie balls are very expensive. If I got the Springfield, I'd also be buying a casting pot and some pure lead ingots to go with it!

So, basically, I want both of these guns very badly to say the least, but my funds could hardly allow getting both of them. I need to choose between these two rifles, but the choice is hard.

What would you pick between these two for the purposes of recreational target shooting/plinking, and why? I'm very interested to hear your comments and to learn more about the great sport of black powder shooting, which is a microcosm unto itself among the shooting sports.

Thanks so much for your time, and your help is greatly appreciated! :)
 
A no-brainer for me !!

Even though "ALL" SideLocks, touch my heart. The Hawken styles really talk to me. I own four Pedersolis and as you pointed out, they are truly in "The Spirit". ...... ;)

I handled one of these with maple stock at a local Cabelas and the fit and finish was simply jaw dropping.
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That is encouraging as the last time I visited our local Cabelas, they only had one sidelock and it was an Traditions kit. So many of these large chain stores, only sell them, on the internet. ..... :mad:

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!
 
The Hawkens is a beautiful work of art. The Springfield is an awkward board that is heavy as a brick club. The Hawkens is easier to clean and the caps are easier to find too. I encourage you to go with art and leave the brick club for others.
 
Since the Hawken would require a patched ball, there would be some difference in the loading procedure. Fussing with patches never bothered me as I always found it fairly easy to find an accurate load. Not the same for me with the Minie ball guns. They are sensitive to bullet diameter and they foul faster, in my usage. For the general target shooting/plinking you mention, the .50 Hawken would be very appropriate, using less powder and kicking less. For hunting, I think the .54 wins, and could there be anything more satisfying than dropping a nice buck with one of these historical gems?
 
I own a Thompson Hawken in 50 caliber, with a Green Mountain round ball barrel and a Thompson rear peep sight. I also have a rifled Pedersoli 1861 Springfield.

Unless your going for elk...I would pick a 50 caliber Hawken over a 54 --- because the 50 is more balanced than the 54 --- The 54 {at least with the Thompson Hawken's} are muzzle heavy. You'll use less powder, have lesser recoil and cheaper bullets.

The 1861 Springfield is also a piece of history that feels good in my hands, but I believe you'll need an extension on the supplied rod {or a longer rod} in order to clean the whole bore with a tight fitting patch --- which seems to have a tendency to get stuck in the bottom of the bore --- that makes it harder to pull out with the original rod.

The Springfields are easier to reload than the Hawkens.

The Hawkens are more accurate than the 1861 Springfields...but the 1861 Springfields are heavy hitters at longer ranges --- especially at steel targets.:)

May I suggest buying the Hawken first and purchase the Springfield at a later date.
 
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I would go with the Hawken and the .54 is a wise choice. I have a .54 Hawken and a 53 Enfield. I really like the Enfield but the Hawken gets the most use.
 
I voted for the Hawken, but those Springfields will shoot out to past 400 yds so I have been told and accurately too.

My personal bag is hunting so that is why I picked the Hawken, I have one and love it. Mine does real well at 100 yds and I could probably get more, but the bullet drop is severe. :eek:
 
Going by your wants/thoughts in the original post, I think you would like the Hawken rifle better, and that thing is a beauty also.

If I were buying, I would get the 1861 because I have a slant toward military arms.

I voted for the Hawken for you though:cool:
 
those Springfields will shoot out to past 400 yds so I have been told and accurately too.
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My Enfield shoots minute of five gallon bucket at 300. When I said 53 Enfield I should have said P53, it is a .58 caliber.
 
I've owned a couple muskets over the years and my main complaint was the sights. They never allowed me to do the fine tuning for precision shooting, but most of my shooting was at paper in muzzleloader matches. The Hawken with dovetailed sights allow for lots of adjustment, so with a file, hammer and drift punch a guy could sight one in pretty easily.
 
It's a personal choice . . . do you want to shoot round ball or minie ball?

I have built and shot Hawkens and they are truly a fine historical rifle. Lots of fun for sure.

I also have a great love for the 1861 Model. I have owned and shot both originals and reproductions. They are fine rifles and I think one of the nicest designs ever made - I much prefer it over the 1862/1863 models. Just something about that graceful round back hammer . . . .

You meant the cost of the round balls and minie balls. If you are going to be doing a lot of shooting, you really need to get set up to cast your own. You don't need a lot of fancy equipment to cast. For 50 years I've used a propane gas hot plate, an old 10 Lb. cast iron Lyman pot and a Lyman bottom pour ladle. You'll be needing soft lead - you can purchase it from some of the vendors on Castboolit site or get it at a scrap yard - plumbers sometime salvage it from jobs as well. Used molds can be purchased on evil bay - a good steel Lyman/Ideal RB or Minie Ball mold can be purchased less than new price if you keep your eyes open or you can purchase either in a Lee mold much cheaper from places such as Titan Reloading.

I guarantee that whatever choice you make . . you'll still "yearn" for the other as well. Two entirely different types of rifles and neither is a bad choice. If you eventually start casting your own lead, the difference in the cost of shooting one style over the other isn't enough to give consideration to. You'll get a few more round balls per pound of lead than you will minie balls but not enough to give a thought to. The powder charge and difference in cost between a normal cap and a musket cap isn't enough to worry about either.

I have shot both and greatly enjoyed both. At this point in my life and at my age, I'd probably opt for the Hawken. The loading process is a little slower than a rifled musket and I just find that relaxing. One consideration that may come in to play is if you intend to use your rifle to hunt - such as deer. If so, check you state's ML hunting rules as some may restrict it to RB only? I'mm not sure as it's been years since I have deer hunted.

I don't envy the decision you have to make but just remember - whatever you get, enjoy it and shoot it and have fun. Who knows, somewhere down the road you may just decide to save your pennies and buy the other one as well? Good luck and enjoy! :)
 
Well, I shoot N-SSA competition, so I'm partial to the Springfield.

For optimal accuracy, you definitely spend a lot of time working up a load for any given projectile. I suggest getting on the N-SSA forum and asking for loads if you go with the Springfield.

Steve
 
The best of both worlds and some. !!!

It's a personal choice . . . do you want to shoot round ball or minie ball?
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It certainly is and I shoot both, the minies and PRBs as well as other conicals, in my variety of "Hawken"-Models. ..... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
Minies do well in slow twist round ball barrels because all the weight is up front. I'm thinking original P53 Enfield barrels had a 1:73 twist and they were good for 800 yards or better with minies.
 
Which rifle

I would go with the Hawken. I owned a Pedersoli .54 Cal Tryon for about six years - GREAT rifle. I had three Santa Fe Hawken's form Western Arms and sold most of my other rifles. Good luck in your search, StrawStalker
 
My preference has always been those rifles of so called "Sporting design." Like the St. Louis Hawken. A {plains rifle} made by Jacob and Samuel Hawken, in their St. Louis, Missouri shop, which they managed from 1815 to 1858. For all intent and purposes sold their product to this country's general mass's. Unlike the Enfield & Springfield which were military issued weaponry primarily built for battlefield use.
 
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