Springfield vs Auto Ord

K

kjm

New member
My wife finally said I could get a 1911 for my B.Day! I've been looking at two makes, and both are as close to GI Issue as they make nowdays. A Springfield mil-spec, and an Auto Ordnance 1911A-1. The Springfield is 130 dollars more than the auto ord, and the guy behind the counter (who is also my gunsmith)says that it is actually worth the extra money to go springfield. I noticed a few small details in the SA that I didn't see in the AO, but is it really worth the extra $?
What kind of Guarantee does SA give on their pistols? AO is the standard one year.
I'd really appreciate your opinions. I want as close to what the govt. issued as possible. The only improvements I want are those that aren't visible (like maybe a tighter action). Thanks for your input!
 
Why not scrounge around and find a real WW1 or WW11 gun? It should be close to the same money, the Springfield is an Brazilian clone and the Thompson Auto-Ord is junk. Should'nt a 1911 be American? henry
 
Between the two, I recommend the Springfield. SA has excellent service and make a very good gun at a decent price, with many features that a practical defensive pistol should already have (undercut trigger guard, flat mainspring housing, Novak sights, front slide serrations, combat trigger, extended safety, bevelled magwell and extended beavertail. My only complaints are the sharp edges on the gun and the sight screw and FLGR need to be loctited in place or they will shoot loose.

Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional Equipment
 
Listen to the guy behind the counter.The Auto Ord's are crappy.
If it's a milspec 1911 you want get the Springfield.The Colt 1991a1 is a good gun also.You'll be happier :) with either one of those.
 
AOs are garbage. SA has a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service. Spend the extra $130, you will be well rewarded.

Regards,
Frank
 
My $0.02--

Plastic trigger and mainspring housing notwithstanding, IMHO the closest thing nowadays to an original 1911 is Colt's 1991A1. Since, as Mr. Bowman says, the SA frame is made in Brazil, and also since the AO frame is made in Spain, it seems to me that an all-U.S.-made pistol by the same manufacturer who worked with John Browning to develop the 1911 in the first place has the greatest claim to originality.

Colt's 1991A1 .45 even continues the serial numbering of WWII GI 1911A1 production. Granted, Colt's probably does this more for marketing purposes than anything else. But it's an appealing touch with sufficient justification to add somewhat to the authenticity of the pistol.

Anyway, of the Colt, SA, and AO pistols, the Colt and SA are both well-made guns. The AO has a reputation for erratic quality and unreliability. Hopefully, Kahr will turn AO around. But I wonder if anyone knows of any Kahr-made AOs on the market yet.

As I say, this is just my $0.02. HTH. :)


[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited July 22, 2000).]
 
kjm---
Congratulations on your upcoming acquisition!
Of the two brands you mention, the Springfield Armory is far and away the better choice.

Comments from those who advocate the Colt 1991A1 are certainly valid. Replace the black plastic stocks with proper brown plastic or PLAIN checked wood--no medallions or large diamonds, unless you go all the way back to a 1911-era pistol.

I believe I'd hit the nearby gun shows and look for a Colt, pre-Series 80 pistol. If you come up with a Series 70 Colt, obtain a solid (Non collet) barrel bushing. Remember, they didn't Parkerize GI guns until about 1935. Add those proper stocks to a dull blue piece with a low-end trigger job, and you're in business.

I am not certain of the prices, but you might look toward the low end Kimbers. I believe they sell a couple of models without the ski jump grip safety. Those I've seen and shot seem excellent.

I applaud your wanting to stay as near GI as possible. All we really need is a reliable piece with decent trigger and visible sights. There were a lot of service pistols with somewhat higher, fixed sights, for "Service Match" or early National Match use. They are easy to see, and very rugged. The simpler any machinery is, the fewer things can go wrong. Government .45 autos worked fine for 80 years before full length guide rods became popular. MY .45s still do.

May you derive as much enjoyment and security from your .45 auto as I have from mine over the decades.

RR

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
If you want a "real 1911A1", the closest you could get would be the SA. The colt has some kind of firing pin safety, something else to go wrong, and are overpriced, IMO. If you want a shooter, the SA is your best choice. Terry
 
AO may regain quality under Kahr, but for now stick with SA (if your only options are AO and SA).
 
The Colt 1991a1 was the first gun I looked at based on the company's history with the gun. I was sorely disappointed. I DO NOT like the plastic trigger. What I want is a firearm that most closely resembles what my grandfather had in WWII. I will take either Parkerized or Blue finish, but I have to be proud of every detail. This isn't going to be a CCW gun, nor will it be asked (in all likelyhood) to defend my life. This is just one of those guns that you get because you've always wanted it, and finally have the money. I use my Beretta for personal defense. I feel comfortable with it, and have shot it enough to make it like an extension of my arm.
There's just something about the 1911 that you can't describe, but absolutely love. That's me. I need a model that is of high quality since it will more than likely be my son's someday, and his son's after that. and I want it to be something he'd be proud of. About the only mods that I like are maybe some ebony grips in the double diamond pattern (I like those too!).
I think that I will opt for the SA unless an original GI shows up for a price I can afford, in a condition I can trust. I also consulted another Gunsmith, and he said that SA is the finest STOCK 1911 on the market period. Of course you can get into the custom jobs, but for a stock, I think the SA is my best bet. Thanks for all the input!
 
KJM, the SA is an excellent choice. Your son will be a lucky boy. Would you possibly consider adopting me???
 
If they're still available you should look at a surplus Argentine version. Argentina adopted the 1911A1 and it was designated as the Modelo 27. They were built in the U.S. by Colt until production was relocated to Argentina and they are identical and fully interchangeable with a Colt 1911A1. Later on the Argentines produced the Ballister Molina which was very similar in appearance but not the same internally. Model 27's, regardless of where they were produced, were of the same quality in respect to metallurgy and craftsmanship as those produced here by Colt during those times, which is to say they are excellent in both regards. They were around in good numbers several years ago when I got mine for $250 and I saw them again recently but I don't remember the particulars.
 
At almost every gun show I see Colt Commercials from the 1946-1970 era almost go begging. How can anyone do better for a 1911 type pistol?

Jim
 
kjm, I have two Springfield "Loaded" pistols, and I have several friends that have them too. They are our most liked handguns we own. I recently sent my SA Champion back to the factory due to some accuracy concerns...SA blew be away with their excellent customer service. Please keep your ear to the ground, as I will be reporting on my "new gun's" accuracy...hopefully today. Springfields have a lifetime warrantee, and they really want you to be happy.
 
I bought a Springfield mil-spec 1911 for the same reasons you want one, and I'm very pleased with it. Fit and finish are excellent, and it's been reliable and accurate right out of the box.

There seems to be two choices in buying a "good" 1911 nowadays, SA and Kimber. You probably can't go wrong with either.
 
I have a 1991a1 that I'm pretty happy with, and I have a buddy with a springfield who is happy with his gun. I have heard from a few people to stay away from Auto-ords.
 
Jeez!

Lots of unreliable opinions in this thread --except MY opinions of course.

Don't confuse Auto Ord. with Para Ord. (Write this down or store it on your C://drive.) Auto Ord is cheap crap. Para Ord is a very fine gun, and the company is one of the original mfgs of the 1911.

You want a "Mil Spec" that is faithful to the original military issue 1911a1. That would be the Springfield MilSpec.

We can eliminate the other options mentioned in here:

The Colt Series 80 features a non MilSpec safety linkage.

The Colt 1991 is NOT a 1911 even though it looks like one. IF it were a 1911 it would be designated 1911. It's not. What's that tell you?

Kimber is a production gun trying to be a "custom" gun at a production gun price. You can't manufacture a "custom" gun at a production price. Its "custom" features take it out of the Mil Spec class. Kimber contracts out a lot of its parts. Its had problems with the fit/tolerances of the jobbed-out parts. The mag release now needs to be depressed to insert the mag. Before that the slide would not stay open after the last round. Military Specs require that the slide stay open after the last shot, and that the mag be inserted without depressing the mag release. Kimber uses cast parts. The castings are very sophisticated, but they're cast. Mil Specs require forged parts. LesBaer will customize your existing 1911 and provides a list of the brands of guns they will work on. The Springfield is on the list. Kimber is not on the list. What's that tell you?

Springfield is an American product. The Brazilian factory is owned by the Springfield Armory in the USA. It's state of the art. ALL the guns are fitted and finished in the USA arsenal They have a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service.

A "clone" of the 1911 is ANY 1911 production gun. The 1911a1 patent is expired, and the specs are readily available to anyone who wants to produce an exact, Mil Spec, 1911 -- Even Norinco in Communist China. Mfgs like Norinco and Auto Ord cut corners on metal alloys, fit, tolerances, finish. They meet military specifications, but they're NOT the quality of a gun that EXCEEDS military specifications in fit/finish.

You could shop around and pay a premium price for a true Colt military production gun -- or a Remington Rand, Union Switch & Signal, or any other of the comparatively rare, collectable "antiques." Then you'd have a collector and not a shooter. Also, the military guns are not nearly as tightly fitted as the production "clones." The GI guns are loose to make them function reliably in combat conditions. Loose makes them reliable, but not very accurate.

The Springfield Mil Spec is PRECISELY manufactured according to military specifications: forged parts, military spec slide/sear linkage specs (unlike the Colt Series 80), parkerized, tight, accurate, nice trigger out of the box.

I wanted a Colt 1911 and price was no object. My dealer -- who is both knowledgable and a bit of a high end snob -- talked me out of the Colt and into the Spingfield. I'm glad that he did. The Springfield is a nicer gun these days, tighter, more accurate.

$15.00 is not "money" when purchasing a firearm. $15.00 is the price of a box of ammo. Even $50 or $75 is not much of a price difference in a $500 firearm. Easy to put $50 or $75 into a holster for a $500 firearm.

OK, probably more than $0.02 here . . .
 
Interesting posts. After reading them, despite my personal preference for Colt's 1991A1, I'm strongly tempted to get a Springfield Mil-spec in addition. ;)
 
Hmm. Interesting.

1) If Auto Ord is cheap crap, why does mine fire every time, without fail, without stoppages. Could it be the Ed Wilson mags?

2) Maybe the ammunition should be considered. I believe the cheapest Auto Ord is sold as a "Hardballer". When I fire hardball in my AO it works. Squeeze trigger with hardball in chamber, bang. Boring. I guess before I buy a gun I should make sure it fits the intended job.

3) Of course it isn't an accurate gun. I can only hold a six inch circle from seven yards. That's awful. Then again, when the one Deputy who carries a 1911 tried my cheap AO crap, he fired about thirty rounds into the same six inch circle from 25 yards. Yep, must be the gun. ;)
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By the way, for shooting various types of non-hardball .45 ammo, I bought a Kimber. It shoots every time too. Just like my Glock! (Oh, Jeez! :D )
 
In regards the the slanderous tone when refrencing the origin of manufacture of the SA frames...
Brazil is a very excelent place for a weapon to be made. They use the newest CNC machines and the latest technologies in metal cutting and treatments. More so than some makers in the US. When looking for a reciever for an FAL - the best ones are made by Imbel of Brazil... Now one scoffs at that. Taurus handguns are outstanding with one of the best service levels in the industry - compairable to SA... Taurus is Brazilian... No one gives flak to Taurus about that.
Why all the sudden is Brazil bad? Just because we are talking about a 1911? Indeed the 1911 is as American as Baseball and Apple Pie - but didn't John Moses Browning travel to Europe to make his famous Hi-Power?
Seems rather International to me.

Think Globally Shoot Locally! :D
 
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