springfield 1903a3 front side blades

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pilotecap10

Inactive
Hi everybody,
I am new here and thanks to you, i think (i hope...) my springfield will shoot strait.
I shot only few cartridges. All of them were something like 1 m high because of the barrel bedding i guess ( well according to what i red on this forum).
I shot at 50m and the rear sight at 200m : first mistake (my garden is too small)
Then i looked at the front sight blade... it's an "E" the smallest one !
Does anybody can tell me the reason why there were 4 different sizes of front sight blades?
And in my case, what's the "new" or "modified" range of the rifle with a "E" blade instead of A"blade ?
For the rest, i my groupment at 50m was around 10cm. What kind of circle should i expect at this distance ?
Thank you very much for your help.
Sorry for my mistakes...i'm french... i guess u.s. forum is best for u.s rifles...

Sylvain
 
Salut Sylvain,

I also have a 1903. It is the pride of my collection.

Let me understand your situation. You set the rear sight to 200m and shot at a target 50m away. The point of impact (POI) is 1m above the point of aim (POA). Correct?

If this is really what you have, your rifle is really shooting way too high. I suggest taking the rifle apart to see whether there is anything out of place. For example, there should be anything under the barrel that pushes the muzzle upward, and the receiver shouldn't sit so low that the forearm is pushing up the barrel. Also you may want to check, at least visually, whether the barrel is bent.

There are different height of front sight blades for small adjustments. You have the lowest height, and it makes things even worse. But even with the highest blade you probably is still off. Let us know.

-TL
 
Yes...you're right. When the barrel sit in the stock, it doesn't touch at the tip of the wood, so i will start inserting a layer or foamor stuff like that between the wood and the barrel to see the difference.
I will also shoot without the handguard, i read on this forum it could help too...
I had to put the front sight at the lower limit or the rear sight hole and then i was centered, so i say 1m but i couldn't mesure.
Many things to try...
But my rear sight is appart from rifle at the moment because it was loose...I will change it or repair the base according to the price my gunsmith wants for this ;)

Thanks for your help TL;)
 
I would just start with the original configuration, i.e. without the shim and with the handguard. Mine is pretty much so. It shoots quite alright as it is.

In order to move the POI down, you want to have high front sight blade and set the rear sight to the lowest.

I don't know about in France, but we can buy most of the parts quite affordably here, so I double as my gunsmith. Have fun and let us know how it turns out.

-TL
 
I will do this.
And also at 200m...
In france...hum...the parts come from u.s. so...it's around 50 $ for rear sight and 20 for the front sightt.
If delivery wasn't so long i would buy it direct from u.s. i would order rear and front sight and a mirror for my father to look after me!

Can you tell me more about front sight blades E ? What's the point of it and how to calculate the new range.
For instance with rear sight on 200, a target at 200m and front sight A i suppose you hit close to the center, but with E front sight blade how high do shoot and 200 become 400 ? 500??
A=0.537 and E=0.477 high
Or maybe it was just a comfort for the user who prefer to have the front sight blade lower in the rear sight blade...to see more of the target ?!?
I also shoot norma vulvan 180gr... (for my friend the wild boar ;) ) this can make a difference.
I will tell you the changes ;)
 
congratulations on your new rifle. there were 4 different sizes of front sights because slight variations in the manufacturing process could give each rifle a different range that it was sighted in for so the different sight heights were to allow the factories to sight each rifle in for the correct distance(200 yards, I believe, was the correct range). a 200 yard zero should definitely not be a full meter high at 50 yards however, something is very wrong with that sight height.
 
Your front sight may have been modified at some point, which could make it shoot high.

If there are no obvious other problems, the simplest thing to do is get some steel flat stock in the correct thickness and make a new sight blade. If made taller than required, it can be filed to sero the gun, the shaped and finished with cold blue.

The older version, the 1903 had the rear sight battle zeroed to have a point blank (hold ON a human size target) out to 547 yards. They generally shoot high.

What part of the rear sight is loose? If its the fit to the base, it could be peened to tighten it up on its dovetail mount. They are also supposed to be set with a punch to keep them tight on the base. There's a small hole to put the punch through from the top, and grooves in the receiver part of the lower dovetail to grip the punched part of the sight. Looking at a sight thats been removed will show it.
 
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Can you tell me more about front sight blades E ? What's the point of it and how to calculate the new range.
For instance with rear sight on 200, a target at 200m and front sight A i suppose you hit close to the center, but with E front sight blade how high do shoot and 200 become 400 ? 500??
A=0.537 and E=0.477 high
Click to expand...

The height difference between front sight blades is 0.015" (0.4mm). Switching from one front sight blade to the next move the point of impact by 2 MOA (minute of angle). For instance, if you replace the "E" blade with "D" blade, the POA will move down by 5.5cm at 100m, or 11cm at 200m.

The markings on rear sight are in yards, instead of meters, but they are close enough for most practical purposes (1 yard = 0.9m).

Here is what I would do to zero in the rifle if I were you.

1. With the rifle in its original configuration, i.e. without shims and with "E" blade, set the rear set to 100, and shoot a group of at least 5 shots at a target at 100m. Rest the rifle as stable as possible. I'd use sand bags under the chamber.

2. Locate the center of the group and measure its vertical distance from the point of aim. Let's say it is x cm. Then the number of steps in blade size you will need to change will 0.172 * x. For instance, if your group is 17 cm above the point of aim, 0.172 * 17 = 2.9, so I will replace the "E" with "B".

Edit: A more generic equation
Front blade steps = 17.2 * x / R
where x (cm) is the vertical distance between POI and POA;
R (m) is the range.

3. Shoot another group again to verify the POI. Change the blade if necessary. As suggest by other guys, you can modify the blade to suit your need. File it to make it lower (POI moves up), or stretch/solder/glue to make it taller (POI moves down).

4. Set the rear sight to 200, and shoot to verify now the POI is 10cm to 12cm above the POA. I will keep this setting for hunting up to 250m. I call this battle sight setting, and I know my POI will be within 12 cm above or below my POA.

5. If possible I will shoot groups at different distance for more precise applications. For example, if I have target at 300m, I will set my rear sight to 300 and fire a group. Adjust the rear sight till POI matches POA. I will write down the new setting. With more testing, I will have a table for different distances. You have to keep using the same ammunition, or the table becomes useless.

Generally I take the markings on rear sight as indications. I will try to calibrate one point (usually 100) and the rest I will take them as suggestions.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it works out.

-TL
 
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Yes!
Yesterday, I shot 200m, but after setting the rear sight, I didn't check the windage and of course missed the target.
So I switched to 100m were I could set it faster.
guess what, on the package of norma vulcan is standing, -14.7cm at 200m, if zero is at 100m, and I shot 15 cm above the POA...
this was without hand guard.
I made a "home made" bedding with some layers or aluminium paper.
not sure it was usefull.
Anyway, now I know the problem is behind the rifle... :)
I will post some pictures of the target and the rifle maybe tomorrow.

thank you guys
 
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