Springfield 1903

Keller505255

Inactive
Recently I got a Springfield Model 1903. The serial number on it is 388,288 and all the research I have done has led me to believe that it could be dangerous to shoot. When I researched further I found that there was no occurence of any of the rifles from the year mine was made that had an issue. I am just curious if anyone has any input on the safety is this just going to be a mantle piece or could I possibly use this for deer hunting or just to shoot because I have an abundence of ammo. Also if anyone has any ideas of value that would be apreciated as well...... Thanks!
 
The debate over the Low Number Springfields is the Milsurps version of the Caliber Wars, it will probably never end. In Hatcher's Notebook Julian Hatcher-who was the officer who investigated ALL the blowups of low numbered M1903s in service-says the problem years were 1906 or so and 1911, the old story about the problems cause by inexperienced new workers during the attempt to increase product in during WWI is just that. They did change the heat treatment and steel used at Springfield 800,000 and RIA 285,000 so they do have an extra margin of safety and the low numbers were never withdrawn from service. The current consensus is that the risk of a blowup really isn't worth it risks but it comes down to an individual decision.
 
Wheather you shoot yours or not is up to you, however I would not allow any rifle with in the <800,000 rang to be fired on any range or match I run.

Nor do I know of any CMP GSM Master Instructor that would allow them to be used in any GSM Clinic or Match.

*WARNING ON “LOW-NUMBER” SPRINGFIELDS
M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000, and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all “low-number” Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many “low-number” as well as “high-number” Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.

Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.

A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be “low number”. All original swept-back bolts are definitely “high number”. In addition, any bolt marked “N.S.” (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as “high number” if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).

CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A ”LOW NUMBER” RECEIVER. Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not “shooters".
 
I have a low numbered 03 barreled action, sn 216XXX. I've had it for years and have gone back and forth about what to do with it. The barrel is a short chambered Remington from WW2 that has had a couple inches lopped off and a re-crown, the receiver has been drilled for Lyman receiver sights. I presume it has zero collector value. The action is very tight and shows no signs of actually being used. The bolt is from a late action and is the better steel.

The steel on this particular receiver does not appear to be brittle, quite the opposite, it appears to be a little too soft. I could buy a pull through reamer and finish the chamber. I could fire only light, cast bullet loads through it. I could, but I won't. To me, it's not worth the risk.
 
The steel on this particular receiver does not appear to be brittle, quite the opposite, it appears to be a little too soft. I could buy a pull through reamer and finish the chamber. I could fire only light, cast bullet loads through it. I could, but I won't. To me, it's not worth the risk.

The problem with this statement is that there is no way to KNOW if your particular low numbered receiver is too brittle, too soft, etc without destroying it to test it. It is impossible to "eyeball" a receiver and conclude that it is not safe to fire, hence, the CMP's warning against firing ALL low numbered receivers. Also, remember, if you choose to fire the low number receiver around other people and it blows up and hurts them, that is a lot of liability on you, especially if they can prove you knew there were questions about the safety of low numbered 1903's (i.e. the fact that you are on this site asking about it, and believe me, today's lawyers in this litigious society of ours would be able to find this site, or find some other way to squeeze money out of you in damages). If it were me, I would appreciate the rifle for what it is, a fine piece of American heritage to be cherished, displayed, and passed down to the children, but not to be fired. I would rather buy another 30-06 rifle to safely fire all your surplus ammo rather than risk damage to yourself and others.
 
Well this is all good information that I was looking for. Honestly I am rather disappointed that I am not able to shoot this rifle but it seems the risk is simply not worth it. So my question is what if any is the value of this gun since most people that would know enough to buy this gun would not recommend it to be shot?
 
Gee, thanks for the lecture Doc. What part of "...I won't. To me its not worth the risk" do you not agree with?

I didn't eyeball my 03, I put in a vise and gave it a half dozen really good whacks with a large ball peen hammer, a brittle receiver shatters when this is done, mine didn't. Regardless, my 03 will never be fired by me or anyone else. I won't tell anyone else what to do, but the potential risks are well known even if the root cause is hotly debated.
 
I do not have a high opinion of WW1 or earlier metallurgy. People confuse the nice shiny finish and precise machining with quality. Unfortunately the quality stops at the surface as the metals of that era are of poor quality. This is due to the primitive and inconsistent process controls of the era. Every analysis of steels from that time, that I have read, will have a statement saying: “slag, impurities, poor quality”.

The process controls of Springfield Armory were so poor that they were producing burnt receivers from 1903 to 1918. When you read in Hatcher's Notebook, the forging ovens did not have gages to tell the temperature of the steel. Hatcher puts the blame on the workers, but the workers are not the ones buying the forging ovens. Management relied on human eyeballs to judge forging temperatures. There is no reason that human eyeballs were any better in one year than any other year.

Also, the steels used in these rifles are plain carbon steels, not the alloy steels we use today. The parts on these rifles are at least half to a third as strong as modern parts made from 4140 steel.

The basic problem, one that goes around and around, is that there is not a non destructive way to tell if a single heat treat receiver is good or bad.


These old receivers also fragment when they fail, good receiver or bad. The M1903 does not handle gas well, blowups show the blown out wood chunks, and that will occur single/double/nickel steel. The consequences of being wrong, the potential of serious injury so high, that I do not think it is worth shooting one of these things .

As for there not being a record of a receiver failure from that year. That only proves there is no record, not that a failure did not happen.

Everyone’s statistics are based on Hatcher’s Notebook which is not an all inclusive list of all 03 failures. Hatcher’s list starts 1917 and ends 1929. There are known failures after. Likely there were failures before, but they just were not reported or in the documentation which Hatcher had access.


Daffy Doc, in his paper at http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/ makes the same error.


No receiver failures were reported in the training period before the battles, and during the four major battles that occurred in the seven month period in 1942-43. While it's not possible to estimate the exact number of rifles involved, up to 7,000 would have been in use by the three rifle regiments of the 1st Marine Division, Based on the failure rates of 1917-1918 between one and two rifle receivers would have been expected to fail.
Daffy Doc could not find any failure reports and made the conclusion that absence proves no receivers failures. I disagree with this. The absence of records indicate the absence of records. That does not mean that there were never were records; there could have been. There are buildings full of records that the US Army and Marine Corp have right now which Daffy Doc will never see. These records will be disposed of by the lowest cost method which will guarantee the least embarrassment later. All organizations have to undergo reoccurring data dumps, or there will not be space for the workers. The lack of records might also be due to there was a shooting war going on. Even the military prioritizes efforts as the culture changes from peacetime bureaucracy to a life and death struggle. How high a priority would there be to create rifle failure reports in a war time expansion? If a rifle broke, someone threw it in a scrap bin and got busy filling out paper work for the real important things. Like the Guadalcanal invasion.
 
Thank you for that link it was informative and thanks for all the info and opinions not shooting it seems like the best option im just going to apreciate that my Granpda used this rifle in the service and that he wanted to give it to me.
 
I thought the magic number for Rock Islands is 286,000 and above, rather than 285,000 as cited in an above post.

Springfield Armory is definitely 800,000 and up.

Mine is in the 856,xxx range and I shoot the dickens out of it :D
 
You could hand load your rounds at a lower pressure. Less powder and/or slower burning powder would work just fine. At least it would go bang although there wouldn't be enough pepper on the ball for either hunting or war.
 
As a CMP GSM MI I shouldn't say this, but, If I had one and wanted to shoot it, I think I'd start with somewhere in the neighbor hood of 12 grns of trailboss and any good 150 grain bullet and shoot it at 100, even 200 yards.

I think you'll find out it will shoot pretty good, and the pressure would be quite low.
 
If I were to shoot a low number I would only use good brass and moderate loads. I would not shoot factory because most of that stuff is loaded hot. If I saw the slightest crack, indication of increasing headspace, anything looked like there was a mechanical problem, I would not shoot the thing.

These things are like vintage cars, look great but risky to drive. Out of adjustment drum brakes which don't brake in a straight line, hard metal dashes, no seat belts.

These old guns are not something you can hot rod. And if something goes wrong, you do not have a seatbelt.
 
I just bought my 1903 Springfiled this weekend at the Birmingham, Alabama Gun Collector's Association Gun Show and I love it. It is a Springfiled serial number 1,187,410. I plan on shooting the mess out of it.

I've been looking for a nice one for a LONG time!
 
Gentlemen,

Can anyone tell me about my 1903 Springfield based on its serial number 1,187,410? It is a Mark 1 and very interesting. What unit was it issued too? Where did it serve? Anything at all you may know, I am interested.

Thanks.
 
I have a low # R.I. 03' I probly ran 500+ rounds thru it. I never new about the brittle recivers until one day someone told me, lucky me. I was told by someone long ago that "they got most all the bad ones" I remember hearing that they would shoot the proofing high pressure "Blue pill?" and if it passes then it was safe to shoot. IIRC. This 03' was bought in the early 60's and im NOT telling anyone to shoot a faulty rifle, and yes I know that there were 22 failures recorded some time ago. BTW it's a wall hanger now.
 
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