Sporterized guns...?
- Thread starter Mikef262
- Start date
For a shooter, you need a great bore- no pitting, reasonably sharp lands.
If the barrel was cut, it may have been done with a grinder for all you know...
No big deal, 22" is about the magic number. It can be re-cut with an 11-degree target crown, as I do with mine- using a PTG crowning tool.
If the barrel was cut, it may have been done with a grinder for all you know...
No big deal, 22" is about the magic number. It can be re-cut with an 11-degree target crown, as I do with mine- using a PTG crowning tool.
tahunua001
New member
how bout the fact that it's a cut down mosin nagant for the price of a collectable mosin nagant?
people seem to think that if you buy a $200 rifle and take a hack saw, a sheet of sand paper and $4 bottle cold blue that they've just made a $250 dollar rifle. it doesn't work like that, that's a $75 rifle tops and that's assuming that it doesn't have a drill and tap job. if you offer that he will more than likely get offended but what are you gonna do?
people seem to think that if you buy a $200 rifle and take a hack saw, a sheet of sand paper and $4 bottle cold blue that they've just made a $250 dollar rifle. it doesn't work like that, that's a $75 rifle tops and that's assuming that it doesn't have a drill and tap job. if you offer that he will more than likely get offended but what are you gonna do?
Well...
IF it's poorly done, you should care. You're going to need to re-crown it at a minimum; and if it's butchered, you'll need to cut it again first.
You really should have some idea of bore and crown condition before buying it.
You're buying this to shoot- it has no collectible value.
IF it's poorly done, you should care. You're going to need to re-crown it at a minimum; and if it's butchered, you'll need to cut it again first.
You really should have some idea of bore and crown condition before buying it.
You're buying this to shoot- it has no collectible value.
tahunua001
New member
I was simply letting you know that he's overcharging by 100%.
it shouldn't matter if you're a collector or not. the value of the rifle is $50-75 regardless of whether you collect or not. as has been said. crown, bore condition, bedding, stock condition, trigger pull(usually very heavy on mosin nagants), and metal finish should all be something to look out for.
it shouldn't matter if you're a collector or not. the value of the rifle is $50-75 regardless of whether you collect or not. as has been said. crown, bore condition, bedding, stock condition, trigger pull(usually very heavy on mosin nagants), and metal finish should all be something to look out for.
sorry, i dont feel that a rifle thats been converted to something and does so with good quality would be worth less than normal rifle. A rifle not for historical value, but for accuracy and modern target firing is worth that or more if it comes with a scope/mount and other modifications. now if these are cheapo equipment i can understand, but with some of the expensive equipment out for mosins, i can understand a price of 100-500, thats reasonable, now i wouldnt buy a mosin for 500, id buy a decent savage, ruger or something .now, IF you are looking for rifles of that variety and class its understandable, while a authentic mosin for historic value can run 75 - 170, and can be a good point to modify to a sporter .
but these are completely different category's and should be treated as such IMO
but these are completely different category's and should be treated as such IMO
tahunua001
New member
Duzell,
it is simple buyers market. if a guy takes a $500 1993 volkswagon jetta and puts chrome trim, undercarriage neon lights and flaming seat covers on it that does not mean that he's built a $1000 dollar jetta, it just means that he has a fancy 1993 jetta that bluebooks at $500.
a closer analogy would be a guy with a hotrodded Ford Model T and attempting to get as much for it as a 100% original model T. yes the guy spent many hours and a lot of money getting the custom paint job and everything looking great but in the end it is not what the market standard is built on.
if it is not original condition, the mosin nagant is not worth $125, plain and simple and it doesn't matter if you collect them or not, you shouldn't have to overpay because the seller thinks that their time and effort counts toward overall value.
it is simple buyers market. if a guy takes a $500 1993 volkswagon jetta and puts chrome trim, undercarriage neon lights and flaming seat covers on it that does not mean that he's built a $1000 dollar jetta, it just means that he has a fancy 1993 jetta that bluebooks at $500.
a closer analogy would be a guy with a hotrodded Ford Model T and attempting to get as much for it as a 100% original model T. yes the guy spent many hours and a lot of money getting the custom paint job and everything looking great but in the end it is not what the market standard is built on.
if it is not original condition, the mosin nagant is not worth $125, plain and simple and it doesn't matter if you collect them or not, you shouldn't have to overpay because the seller thinks that their time and effort counts toward overall value.
I feel that Mila Kunis and Jessica Biel should show up at my front door with a twister game and a jar of grape jelly.
Doesn't mean it is realistic.
I like Mosin Nagants, but they are crappy hunting rifles. The split bridge makes scope mounting difficult, and the variations in manufacturing tolerances over the years make stock fitting a pain, and generally speaking, they are not all that accurate.
Throwing a $200 worth of parts at a $150 rifle does not make a $350 rifle, it makes a $100 rifle. And a "real" $350 rifle (Ruger American, Savage Axis, etc) will shoot circles around it.
The days of modifying a military rifle to a sporter as a more economical way of getting a quality hunting rifle are gone. This made a lot of sense when they were a fraction of the price of the bottom of the line Remington or Winchester, and could be found by the barrel full in the local hardware store for $10. Those days are long gone.
I understand all those points and they are good ones. I never thought about trigger pull... How bad are they on mosins? Personally I just like the look of the sporterized one better, but that opinion clearly varies, and I understand. So as long as the barrel has been done by someone reliable and it has a nice bore it will serve well? No other things to look out for?
Mosin triggers are like a box of chocolates. I have one which is excellent, one which is OK, and one that kind of sucks.
Keep in mind, that even a good military trigger is a lot different than a single stage trigger found on modern hunting rifles.
There are aftermarket triggers available, but they cost as much as the rifle should.
I am a form follows function kind of guy, I don't care what something looks like as long as it works.
Keep in mind, that even a good military trigger is a lot different than a single stage trigger found on modern hunting rifles.
There are aftermarket triggers available, but they cost as much as the rifle should.
I am a form follows function kind of guy, I don't care what something looks like as long as it works.
Be weary of any sporterized milsurp. If the rifle could be readily converted back to it's original condition and the seller provided the furniture, then fine. In this case the barrel is cut and as previous posters have mentioned, you are unaware of its craftsmanship and condition. Sporters generally make me cringe and hold no more intrinsic value to me because they are usually irreparably destroyed. Also repeated ad nauseum on this forum is the futility of doing this to any Mosin. If you're going for looks, shop around for another rifle. They are ugly and no modification I know of will change that feature. Doesn't mean I don't own one. I think they are great pieces with an even greater historical significance. JG sales probably still has these on the cheap and you're getting a re-arsenaled gun from the factory. Cleaning out cosmoline is a great way to learn about your rifle and what makes it tick.
Yeah, it lowers the starting value for an unmolested rifle a bit.
A type 53 is a Chinese version of the M44 Carbine. Russian M44s sell for about $200 in the current market.
T53s are currently available from several sources for $99, Example:
http://www.jgsales.com/mosin-nagant...liber,-good-condition,-c-r,-used.-p-2341.html
How far did the barrel get cut? Mosin carbines only have about 20" of barrel to begin with. Does it still have the folding bayonet?
Do you have a link? I looked on Armslist for MO and saw several original looking T53s, I didn't see any Mosins for $125.
A type 53 is a Chinese version of the M44 Carbine. Russian M44s sell for about $200 in the current market.
T53s are currently available from several sources for $99, Example:
http://www.jgsales.com/mosin-nagant...liber,-good-condition,-c-r,-used.-p-2341.html
How far did the barrel get cut? Mosin carbines only have about 20" of barrel to begin with. Does it still have the folding bayonet?
Do you have a link? I looked on Armslist for MO and saw several original looking T53s, I didn't see any Mosins for $125.
Apparently it sold. Heres a link: http://www.armslist.com/posts/21778...ale--7-62x54-chinese-m53-carbine-sportorized-
Hmm. Doesn't look like he cut the barrel down much at all, and he did a decent job milling off the Bayonet mount, and installed some take-off sporter sights.
That looks like a handy little truck gun, however I bet it kicks like a mule, and has a muzzle flash like the USS Missouri. An M38 weighs about 7.5 LBS, with the cut down stock and no handguard that is probably closer to 7.
It is a moot point since it has sold, but the value of something like that is really subjective. If I was looking for a handy light weight utility rifle, I would consider that in the $100 neighborhood.
If I wanted a hunting rifle, I would go to WalMart and get a Ruger American.
Keep in mind, a big problem with some Milsurp rifles as hunting guns can be availability of ammo suitable for hunting. You can usually find something mail order, but finding a gun shop with 7.62X54 soft points on the shelf may be hard.
That looks like a handy little truck gun, however I bet it kicks like a mule, and has a muzzle flash like the USS Missouri. An M38 weighs about 7.5 LBS, with the cut down stock and no handguard that is probably closer to 7.
It is a moot point since it has sold, but the value of something like that is really subjective. If I was looking for a handy light weight utility rifle, I would consider that in the $100 neighborhood.
If I wanted a hunting rifle, I would go to WalMart and get a Ruger American.
Keep in mind, a big problem with some Milsurp rifles as hunting guns can be availability of ammo suitable for hunting. You can usually find something mail order, but finding a gun shop with 7.62X54 soft points on the shelf may be hard.
Beretta686
New member
Yup. I have a sporterized 1917 Enfield that I only keep because it was my grandfather's gun. But I wish he would of left it alone and not of sporterized it.
It's a functional gun that I killed many a deer with but not something I'd ever buy, when I can spend a bit more and get an actual sporting rifle.
As the gun you're looking at has been described, I'd pay about $75 for it. And that's being generous. The only value I see in a Mossin-Negant is as a historical piece and that's been wiped out in the sporterization. Now you're just buying a marginal, frankenrifle that will suck at most things you ask of it.
And I thought I was the only one who thinks they deserve that too.
Hard to say without a hands on inspection.
I bought several Mosin Nagant rifles before I found one worth sporterizing, oddly enough it was about the cheapest one i bought too. It has a rarity of 1 (10 being the most rare), so I don't feel bad at all about sporterizing it, if I ever get around to it.
I probably won't buy any more, they just want too much for them now, I see them all day for $160-$180, I just won't pay that much for one.
I bought several Mosin Nagant rifles before I found one worth sporterizing, oddly enough it was about the cheapest one i bought too. It has a rarity of 1 (10 being the most rare), so I don't feel bad at all about sporterizing it, if I ever get around to it.
I probably won't buy any more, they just want too much for them now, I see them all day for $160-$180, I just won't pay that much for one.
tahunua001
New member
you guys are pigs... I'll just take Mila and the twister board and you and jessi can go hog wild with the jelly
back to the topic at hand:
the fact that it's a chinese type 53 really doesn't help his case though he was still able to dupe someone into buying it. type 53s are usually even cheaper than your baseline russian 9130 for price so starting with a cheaper model, I really don't think that the barrel itself was cut but rather the sights were cut off and ground down to accommodate the aftermarket sights and the stock was cut down and given new sling swivels. not a bad hack job, I've seen and done worse. the crown probably wasn't the greatest and those chinese guns did not have easy lives, chances of finding a good bore on one of them is pretty low. however from personal experience they have a better chance on having a smoother bolt so assuming that you could find one with a good crown and bore one of those would make a decent enough truck gun.
oh, and carbines tend to kick a lot harder and throw fireballs with every shot, a hack job mosin would be even worse, not a good hunting rifle at all.