I live in a very low crime area, especially in proportion to population size. About 2 months ago, an individual in my neighborhood broke into an elderly man's home, murdered and decapitated him, and stole his gun. He was pulled over on a traffic stop by a local officer whom he shot and consequently paralyzed. After a short manhunt by a large cross county posse, he was located again in my neighborhood, refused to surrender, and became a lead magnate. The community support for the injured officer has been immense. The weird part for me was today I was informed via an FBI agent working on a non related case that the perpetrator was employed by a contractor at work. This guy was in my office and possibly my vehicle for months on a daily basis. Just a wake up to myself that the world is not as safe as it seems sometimes.
Spooky brush with the dark side
- Thread starter G-Freeman
- Start date
Bruce in West Oz
New member
My brother runs a "party" business for kids. He meets a lot of parents who return often, and becomes quite friendly with them.
A particular father -- "a nice bloke", my brother described him -- used to bring his kids in often and chat to Brian while the kids played.
A week after Brian last saw the man, he (the man) was arrested for murdering his wife by beating the back of her skull in .....
Sometimes you can never tell ....
B
A particular father -- "a nice bloke", my brother described him -- used to bring his kids in often and chat to Brian while the kids played.
A week after Brian last saw the man, he (the man) was arrested for murdering his wife by beating the back of her skull in .....
Sometimes you can never tell ....
B
Danger Dave
New member
I know what you mean. I've had 2 encounters with the "Dark Side", both in my home town, which is by no means a high-crime area.
The first one was a regular customer in the Army/Navy store I used to work in part-time (nice, cushy job while I was in college). Saw him about twice a month. It seems he conspired with his "girlfriend" to murder her husband. Well, the local Sheriff's dept. nailed him, and he did us all a favor by hanging himself in jail. Yaaayy!
The other hit closer to home - this one happened about 10 yrs ago. A friend of my father's owned a garage, which is where I always took my cars (out of business now, but I still take my car to one of his former mechanics). He had two mechanics working for him - "D" and "M" (I don't want to use names here) - both apparently nice guys. One of the mechanics (I'll call him "D") had come to my house one day to figure out what was wrong with my car, and spent a couple of hours there working on it.
A few weeks later, we hear about a murder in Atlanta. Somebody apparently walked up to a woman at a red light and shot her in the head and took her purse. Then we hear that the local Sheriff says it was most likely someone from our county, and they were nowhere to be found. Then, we hear the name...it took a while to sink in - it was "D" the mechanic who had been to my house. The one I'd been seeing for years, and had talked to on several occaisions. Then I heard the story from the person who turned him in (his cousin had called and told them the story) - "D" and his cousin were partying and doing drugs in Atlanta, ran out of money and decided to rob someone. "D" walked up to the window of the car, asked for money, and she (the victim) began rolling up the window, so he pulled the gun out and shot her in the head and took her purse. The purse contained $8.
He was on the run for about 5 days - pretty tense times for us. He's in prison for first degree murder.
The only other one was one day, I was home sick. I got up, turned on the TV - there's a special news broadcast. I hear that they're looking for Asian gang members that have fled an extortion sting operation (they were extorting money out of a local Chinese restaraunt - and they turned them in!). Then see the skycopter pictures and think "hey, that looks like the end of my street!" Then I realize "HEY!!! That IS my street!!!". So, I lock all the doors and grab the shotgun while I watch the news - turns out they caught them in the horse pasture behind the house (basically next door!).
I also know a few people who worked for the Sheriff's dept. that dealt with Billy Sunday Burke, a bona-fide evil dude if there ever was one (told one friend of mine he murdered 56 people). Funny thing was, all the people at the Sheriff's office said he was a pretty likeable guy.
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Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.
[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited August 19, 1999).]
The first one was a regular customer in the Army/Navy store I used to work in part-time (nice, cushy job while I was in college). Saw him about twice a month. It seems he conspired with his "girlfriend" to murder her husband. Well, the local Sheriff's dept. nailed him, and he did us all a favor by hanging himself in jail. Yaaayy!
The other hit closer to home - this one happened about 10 yrs ago. A friend of my father's owned a garage, which is where I always took my cars (out of business now, but I still take my car to one of his former mechanics). He had two mechanics working for him - "D" and "M" (I don't want to use names here) - both apparently nice guys. One of the mechanics (I'll call him "D") had come to my house one day to figure out what was wrong with my car, and spent a couple of hours there working on it.
A few weeks later, we hear about a murder in Atlanta. Somebody apparently walked up to a woman at a red light and shot her in the head and took her purse. Then we hear that the local Sheriff says it was most likely someone from our county, and they were nowhere to be found. Then, we hear the name...it took a while to sink in - it was "D" the mechanic who had been to my house. The one I'd been seeing for years, and had talked to on several occaisions. Then I heard the story from the person who turned him in (his cousin had called and told them the story) - "D" and his cousin were partying and doing drugs in Atlanta, ran out of money and decided to rob someone. "D" walked up to the window of the car, asked for money, and she (the victim) began rolling up the window, so he pulled the gun out and shot her in the head and took her purse. The purse contained $8.
He was on the run for about 5 days - pretty tense times for us. He's in prison for first degree murder.
The only other one was one day, I was home sick. I got up, turned on the TV - there's a special news broadcast. I hear that they're looking for Asian gang members that have fled an extortion sting operation (they were extorting money out of a local Chinese restaraunt - and they turned them in!). Then see the skycopter pictures and think "hey, that looks like the end of my street!" Then I realize "HEY!!! That IS my street!!!". So, I lock all the doors and grab the shotgun while I watch the news - turns out they caught them in the horse pasture behind the house (basically next door!).
I also know a few people who worked for the Sheriff's dept. that dealt with Billy Sunday Burke, a bona-fide evil dude if there ever was one (told one friend of mine he murdered 56 people). Funny thing was, all the people at the Sheriff's office said he was a pretty likeable guy.
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Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.
[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited August 19, 1999).]
G-Freeman,
At least the scumbag had the good manners to get himself "rehabilitated" before the criminal justice system sentenced him to life in the penal country club...
...Or got off completely because he was raised in a single parent home with a TV that only picked up violent shows, ate lots of sugar, saw his aunt Nattie naked when he was nine and was picked on by his classmates 'cause he picked his nose in school!
Mikey
At least the scumbag had the good manners to get himself "rehabilitated" before the criminal justice system sentenced him to life in the penal country club...
...Or got off completely because he was raised in a single parent home with a TV that only picked up violent shows, ate lots of sugar, saw his aunt Nattie naked when he was nine and was picked on by his classmates 'cause he picked his nose in school!
Mikey
The dark side can strike close to home... Most of you remember the nut in CA quite a few years ago who killed all the migrant workers and buryed them in a peach orchard. Juan Carona (sp) I believe his name was. Well anyway the peach orchard was right behind my uncles house. We were at his place for thanksgiving that year. All of my aunts & uncles, kids, grandkids etc were there... My uncles started having a little fun, pretending that they were the mafia and that they had pined the murders on poor Juan. A bum who just happed to be stopping by to beg for a meal, overheard the talk and beat it fast to the police department. It was a good thing that the local sheriff had gone to school with most of my relatives. Ended up the sheriff stoped by and told them to tone it down a bit. The sheriff was not concerned one bit about all the guns laying around, as they had gotten back from a pheasant hunt eariler in the day. lol By the way... yes they did dig up a good part of my uncles back yard.. but never found anything there...
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Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
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Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
rabbit assassin
Moderator
I have to be careful what I say but anyway -
one morning I hear on the news this person had been arrested for a murder.
I'd rather leave the detail out so as not to identify the case and it was a bit gruesome.
I recognised the name of the accused and thought no way it couldn't possibly be him. When they showed him on tv it was. I had just been talking to him the day before and trying to get a letter from him. Well he never got time to send it.
It really shocked me, talking to that person the day before and on many occasions previously.
Well I think he as out of jail because of lack of evidence and it is quite possible others close to him set him up or were involved as well. I doubt the truth will come out.
Whoever did it I probably spoke to anyway.You can never tell who will kill. That's probably what really shocked me.
People can appear so normal while other things are occuring that you have no knowledge of.
one morning I hear on the news this person had been arrested for a murder.
I'd rather leave the detail out so as not to identify the case and it was a bit gruesome.
I recognised the name of the accused and thought no way it couldn't possibly be him. When they showed him on tv it was. I had just been talking to him the day before and trying to get a letter from him. Well he never got time to send it.
It really shocked me, talking to that person the day before and on many occasions previously.
Well I think he as out of jail because of lack of evidence and it is quite possible others close to him set him up or were involved as well. I doubt the truth will come out.
Whoever did it I probably spoke to anyway.You can never tell who will kill. That's probably what really shocked me.
People can appear so normal while other things are occuring that you have no knowledge of.
Stories like this remind me of the book, Farenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury.
Yes, this post (mine) smacks of conspiracy, but my distrust of the media runs deep.
How easy it is to discredit someone through the media that you don't like, and turn those who once trusted him against him.
Sometimes faith, loyalty, and trust should run deeper than the established rumor-mill that most people put so much credibility in.
Okay, flame away...
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John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
http://www.countdown9199.com
Yes, this post (mine) smacks of conspiracy, but my distrust of the media runs deep.
How easy it is to discredit someone through the media that you don't like, and turn those who once trusted him against him.
Sometimes faith, loyalty, and trust should run deeper than the established rumor-mill that most people put so much credibility in.
Okay, flame away...
------------------
John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
http://www.countdown9199.com
Jeff Thomas
New member
John, of course you are right. I've heard stat's from time to time about how many death row inmates are later found to be innocent, and it was pretty suprising. Who knows the truth ...
I've been blessed by being another step or two away from the dark side, but it has been close enough:
1. My wife, prior to our marriage (but after we met) was with a girlfriend when they went to see that girl's boyfriend. They found him at home, on the couch, with a bullet in the side of his head. Took a while for the LEO's to determine what happened - he had caught an employee stealing from him (about $75 as I recall), and the low life killed him so his crime wouldn't be revealed.
2. A Controller (CPA), who worked for us a short time before the end, was strangled to death by a hired killer. Her estranged husband hired the guy. Took a couple of years for that one to be solved.
3. Another CPA friend in Beverly Hills had her family over for dinner. Someone forgot to lock the door. An armed, masked man entered the condo. The family and friend were seated around a table. The BG put the gun to her head, and told the family to put their heads down on the table. The BG led her around the condo gathering booty, constantly holding the pistol to her head. He bound her before he left. Just before getting up, he knelt down and whispered into her ear 'buy a gun, and lock your door!'. Of course, being the 'intelligent person' she is, she has not bought a gun - says she 'doesn't like them'. I don't know if she has gotten any smarter about checking her doors.
We have had other brushes or acquaintances with brushes against the 'dark side'. I don't need any other examples for my own motivation. I always find it interesting how some people seem to think it is reasonable to carry a concealed weapon or otherwise have a firearm available if you have already had a close brush with crime. But, if you decide to have the same firearm available because they murder one person each day in your metropolitan area, well, then you are 'paranoid'.
These stories remind me of the advice I've heard from various instructors - you never know when the dark side will appear, so once you are comfortable carrying a firearm, then you should carry it everywhere possible.
I've been blessed by being another step or two away from the dark side, but it has been close enough:
1. My wife, prior to our marriage (but after we met) was with a girlfriend when they went to see that girl's boyfriend. They found him at home, on the couch, with a bullet in the side of his head. Took a while for the LEO's to determine what happened - he had caught an employee stealing from him (about $75 as I recall), and the low life killed him so his crime wouldn't be revealed.
2. A Controller (CPA), who worked for us a short time before the end, was strangled to death by a hired killer. Her estranged husband hired the guy. Took a couple of years for that one to be solved.
3. Another CPA friend in Beverly Hills had her family over for dinner. Someone forgot to lock the door. An armed, masked man entered the condo. The family and friend were seated around a table. The BG put the gun to her head, and told the family to put their heads down on the table. The BG led her around the condo gathering booty, constantly holding the pistol to her head. He bound her before he left. Just before getting up, he knelt down and whispered into her ear 'buy a gun, and lock your door!'. Of course, being the 'intelligent person' she is, she has not bought a gun - says she 'doesn't like them'. I don't know if she has gotten any smarter about checking her doors.
We have had other brushes or acquaintances with brushes against the 'dark side'. I don't need any other examples for my own motivation. I always find it interesting how some people seem to think it is reasonable to carry a concealed weapon or otherwise have a firearm available if you have already had a close brush with crime. But, if you decide to have the same firearm available because they murder one person each day in your metropolitan area, well, then you are 'paranoid'.
These stories remind me of the advice I've heard from various instructors - you never know when the dark side will appear, so once you are comfortable carrying a firearm, then you should carry it everywhere possible.
Jessica Wellman
New member
I've been doing a lot of reading this year. I've always enjoyed reading, but just this year I've become more involved with reading books about true crime. Hence, my decision to learn to protect myself in my husband's frequent absences.
The book I'm reading now is documentation of Chicago Police Officers. I was surprised to read how many homes and people are not "criminally prepared." One serial rapist stalked his rape victims. He watched them for months by using a mirror. He would learn about the women by placing a mirror under the gap of their apartment door and watching their activities with this mirror! He knew everything there was to know about them before he ever attacked. He would even enter their apartment while they showered and go through their personal items. The LEO's in many of the rape cases learned that these girls left their doors unlocked! I guess that's ok in Kansas, but these stories take place in the worst parts of Chicago.
I've learned a lot from the documentation from these LEO's. Especially being a woman and how NOT to act when approached by a man. They've repeated over and over how it is natural for a woman to look away from a man who is eyeballing her. Luckily, I've never been the type to let a man stare me down. I've found if I stare right back at them, they will look the other way. They actually give me "the I don't want to mess with her look." According to the police reports, it is the woman that will allow a criminal to stare her down who will usually end up a victim. To the criminal they appear to be "an easy, sheepish target."
I could go on and on with this book, but I won't. It's called "What Cops Know" by Connie Fletcher. "Journey Into Darkness" by John Douglas is also an excellent book. It is amazing how many times he refers to the "guy next door" who turns out to be the next serial killer. I'm sure many of you have read his books, but if you haven't, I recommend it.
Last note, one of the CPD made mention that people are always looking for and even warn their children about "Mr. Stranger Danger." In actuality, crimes are almost always committed by someone you know. Teaching your children to be aware of advances from school teachers and Boy Scout leaders is just as important as Mr. Stranger Danger on the street.
I'll stop now…I always write too much. I'm headed to the range. Take Care.
J
The book I'm reading now is documentation of Chicago Police Officers. I was surprised to read how many homes and people are not "criminally prepared." One serial rapist stalked his rape victims. He watched them for months by using a mirror. He would learn about the women by placing a mirror under the gap of their apartment door and watching their activities with this mirror! He knew everything there was to know about them before he ever attacked. He would even enter their apartment while they showered and go through their personal items. The LEO's in many of the rape cases learned that these girls left their doors unlocked! I guess that's ok in Kansas, but these stories take place in the worst parts of Chicago.
I've learned a lot from the documentation from these LEO's. Especially being a woman and how NOT to act when approached by a man. They've repeated over and over how it is natural for a woman to look away from a man who is eyeballing her. Luckily, I've never been the type to let a man stare me down. I've found if I stare right back at them, they will look the other way. They actually give me "the I don't want to mess with her look." According to the police reports, it is the woman that will allow a criminal to stare her down who will usually end up a victim. To the criminal they appear to be "an easy, sheepish target."
I could go on and on with this book, but I won't. It's called "What Cops Know" by Connie Fletcher. "Journey Into Darkness" by John Douglas is also an excellent book. It is amazing how many times he refers to the "guy next door" who turns out to be the next serial killer. I'm sure many of you have read his books, but if you haven't, I recommend it.
Last note, one of the CPD made mention that people are always looking for and even warn their children about "Mr. Stranger Danger." In actuality, crimes are almost always committed by someone you know. Teaching your children to be aware of advances from school teachers and Boy Scout leaders is just as important as Mr. Stranger Danger on the street.
I'll stop now…I always write too much. I'm headed to the range. Take Care.
J
Well I think my wife is finally becoming convinced that the dark side can and, eventually, will be right outside your own door. A number of things have occured recently very near our house that have had her becoming concerned.
This has had the positive side effect of her being willing to go to the range and learn to shoot. Of course I need to have her get a gun a bit smaller (easier to handle) than mine, but that's ok.
The last event was a high speed chase that ended about a block away from our house. This is made worse by the fact that I am currently traveling a lot for work.
This has had the positive side effect of her being willing to go to the range and learn to shoot. Of course I need to have her get a gun a bit smaller (easier to handle) than mine, but that's ok.
The last event was a high speed chase that ended about a block away from our house. This is made worse by the fact that I am currently traveling a lot for work.
Heres mine.
Couple of years back I get get a call from a friend. He proceeds to tell me that a life long mutal friend of ours is dead.
The story:
My friend was married, with one daughter. He and his wife ran the family business..
He had discovered that 1. The wife was cheating on him. 2. She was embezzling money from the company.
Friend goes to the location where the wife was spending time with her "friend". Enters premises, unloads 7 rounds out of a 1911 on her, tells friend to "tell my daughter I love her" then shoots self.
This was a guy I grew up with, spent more time in his house than my own, and his mom was my surrogate mom.
Even today I'm sick in my heart about this.
Couple of years back I get get a call from a friend. He proceeds to tell me that a life long mutal friend of ours is dead.
The story:
My friend was married, with one daughter. He and his wife ran the family business..
He had discovered that 1. The wife was cheating on him. 2. She was embezzling money from the company.
Friend goes to the location where the wife was spending time with her "friend". Enters premises, unloads 7 rounds out of a 1911 on her, tells friend to "tell my daughter I love her" then shoots self.
This was a guy I grew up with, spent more time in his house than my own, and his mom was my surrogate mom.
Even today I'm sick in my heart about this.
Miss Demeanors
New member
Lady D, I will have to read that book, being in Chicago it kinda hits close to home.
Talk about dark sides.......when I was a kid my friends and I were riding our bikes through the neighborhood. The one boy saw his neigbor outside and we stopped to say hello. The neighbor asked us all if we wanted some balloons that were shaped into animals. Being kids we said sure. He went in his house and brought out all these balloons and started making animals with them. After that we left and continued 'hanging out'. About 6 months later I was watching the news with my parents and guess who this guy was? John Wayne Gacy!!!!!!! He lives/lived in my neighborhood and one of my friends was his neighbor! My sister is older and she knew one of the boys that were killed. Dont think I ever talked to a stranger after that!
Talk about dark sides.......when I was a kid my friends and I were riding our bikes through the neighborhood. The one boy saw his neigbor outside and we stopped to say hello. The neighbor asked us all if we wanted some balloons that were shaped into animals. Being kids we said sure. He went in his house and brought out all these balloons and started making animals with them. After that we left and continued 'hanging out'. About 6 months later I was watching the news with my parents and guess who this guy was? John Wayne Gacy!!!!!!! He lives/lived in my neighborhood and one of my friends was his neighbor! My sister is older and she knew one of the boys that were killed. Dont think I ever talked to a stranger after that!
Ground Level
New member
Awareness, make it a way of life.
[This message has been edited by Ground Level (edited September 09, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Ground Level (edited September 09, 1999).]
Jessica Wellman
New member
Mentioning that I'm interested in LE on TFL can raise hairs, but here I go again.
Whether or not I'll ever wear a badge is beside the point. Just in my research and inquiries into LE I've brought myself to a different level of appreciation for our men in blue (and brown...can't forget the Sheriff's Department) I guess that's why I have to shut my computer down and turn the other cheek many times while reading some posts.
I love to research and I know what you mean Ground Level, about Chicago's web-site. I've never visited that one, but I have read about other departments. Some of the reading I do is not for the queasy stomach. Although, I think you are right, awareness is the key. No one wants to live in "paranoia", but being totally clueless is very dangerous.
Miss D, I think you would enjoy the Chicago PD book. It's not really gross and is quite funny at times. Some people may find the comments of the officers to be rude, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. Working in the health field taught me that humor will sometimes get you passed a difficult situation. I can understand their need to sometimes laugh at some of the things they come across. If a person reading this book has never dealt with death and dying in a profession, they may find their humor ludicrous. Just take it lightly and understand that if they didn't laugh, their only other option would be insanity.
I'm off the posted subject again…Dennis is going to use me for target practice
Love, Peace and Safety to all. I had an excellent day shooting yesterday!!
J
Whether or not I'll ever wear a badge is beside the point. Just in my research and inquiries into LE I've brought myself to a different level of appreciation for our men in blue (and brown...can't forget the Sheriff's Department
) I guess that's why I have to shut my computer down and turn the other cheek many times while reading some posts. I love to research and I know what you mean Ground Level, about Chicago's web-site. I've never visited that one, but I have read about other departments. Some of the reading I do is not for the queasy stomach. Although, I think you are right, awareness is the key. No one wants to live in "paranoia", but being totally clueless is very dangerous.
Miss D, I think you would enjoy the Chicago PD book. It's not really gross and is quite funny at times. Some people may find the comments of the officers to be rude, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. Working in the health field taught me that humor will sometimes get you passed a difficult situation. I can understand their need to sometimes laugh at some of the things they come across. If a person reading this book has never dealt with death and dying in a profession, they may find their humor ludicrous. Just take it lightly and understand that if they didn't laugh, their only other option would be insanity.
I'm off the posted subject again…Dennis is going to use me for target practice
Love, Peace and Safety to all. I had an excellent day shooting yesterday!!
J
) that you would think I would consider you for target practice. I am cut to the quick! *I* have not gone to the dark side!The favorite missing-child story in the Rochester area for three years was about Kali Ann Poulton. Vanished, no trace. "Have you seen her" pictures put up all over.
Just before taking a week at LFI, I watch the local news to relax. Lo, there is my office building upon the screen! with cops in front? what gives?
Her killer confessed. He had been (some time before) a security guard at my building. He strangled her and hid her body in the air conditioning coolant tank in the building...for three years. DNA tests confirmed what was left.
While the perp was still working there, one of my friends happened to mention to the guard/perp that he'd "kill the guy who abducted/murdered Kali"...little did he know who he was talking to....
Employees were in an uproar and required counseling the following week. I got my own 50 hours of "counseling" from Ayoob: refinements of "two to the body, one to the head...".
My trust of security guards has gone to absolute zero since.
Just before taking a week at LFI, I watch the local news to relax. Lo, there is my office building upon the screen! with cops in front? what gives?
Her killer confessed. He had been (some time before) a security guard at my building. He strangled her and hid her body in the air conditioning coolant tank in the building...for three years. DNA tests confirmed what was left.
While the perp was still working there, one of my friends happened to mention to the guard/perp that he'd "kill the guy who abducted/murdered Kali"...little did he know who he was talking to....
Employees were in an uproar and required counseling the following week. I got my own 50 hours of "counseling" from Ayoob: refinements of "two to the body, one to the head...".
My trust of security guards has gone to absolute zero since.
George Dickel
Inactive
While stationed at Fort Hood, TX in a Military Police company in the mid 70's, a friend asked me if I had heard about SGT H****. He said SGT H**** had been arrested for rape, 25 counts no less. Seems he had been answering for rent ads in the newspaper in Waco and Temple, TX. If a woman met with him to see the property, he would rape her. I had been stationed in the same MP company in Germany with him and we were transfered to Ft. Hood but were in different companies in the same battalion. He had been a good MP and NCO, courteous, friendly and well liked by everyone. Tall good looking guy, had a very pretty wife and two little boys. Go figure.
a Army buddy and myself back in1970 were shooting pool with this guy called Cherokee Bill and a sidekick of his. A older man was hanging around with these two guys. The bar and poolrom was called Sir Kennys in Silver spring ,Md. The next day I was in the bar and heard that Cherokee Bill and his young buddy Killed the old man sometime during the night. They were of coarse caught ,but i never learned what happened. I know one thing . it seems like yesterday that i was a young guy just out of the Army.