Split necks

S

Stats Shooter

New member
A quick straight forward question..

Do yall see any difference in accuracy when the neck of a case splits upon firing? Hypothetically, suppose a batch of cases have been fired (and not annealed) 6 times..and on the 7th cycle of being fired, 25% of the cases have the neck split when firing. Can you tell which bullet holes were made by cases whose neck split when fired?

I ask because I fired a batch of .223 in lake city brass on about its 7th load and about 25% of the cases split, at 200 yards the groups were all less than 1" so it appears the split necks made zero difference. But I just thought I would ask because I intend to use the other batch of 100 in a match and I bet that some of those necks will split as well.

And before anyone says it, I know annealing will make brass last longer.
 
I once had a batch of Remington .308 Win. brass that I did a batch load of 200 rounds. This was brand new factory brass for reloading. A couple of weeks after loading, I took some to the range and was getting strange fliers when I knew I held well. Hits were nowhere near where I called them. All of the ones that shot out of the groups had split necks and on inspection of the ammo not yet shot, over half had split necks. When I go home I inspected the rest of that ammo and better than half had split necks. I could pull the bullets out with my fingers. I salvaged the bullet, powder and primers and on the good ammo that was left, I pulled the bullets, saved the powder and primers and annealed the necks. That batch of brass lasted for tens reload with annealing after the first five reloads.
Paul B.
 
Hits were nowhere near where I called them. All of the ones that shot out of the groups had split necks and on inspection of the ammo not yet shot, over half had split necks.
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Im sure if the necks were split BEFORE you fired them that they would group poorly. I can't imagine you would get consistent neck tension with bullets being held by a split-neck case. I was referring to cases where the neck splits upon firing and not before...but it sounds like you got a batch of brass that was never annealed.
 
Last year during my last prairie dog outing I had several cases that had split case mouths, stretch marks, over-expanded primer pockets, and even a couple split cases. I know that these occurred after firing, as I always double inspect my cases during the reloading process for my varmint rounds (once after cleaning and once just prior to powder charging). None of those rounds performed erratically downrange.
 
Haven't had a split neck in a bottle neck rifle cartridge in years and can't remember if it affected the group or no. But I do have the occasional split case mouth in hand gun work and invariably that round is a cpl inches out of the group at 25 yds from rest. I'm speaking of cases that split when fired...as I sort my brass well enough to be sure of no split before firing. Rod
 
I could suggest everyone go out and purchased a R. Lee book on modern reloading, and then? I would have to suggest they read the book. Reloaders can not imagine there could be no difference between a case neck expanding when releasing the bullet and a neck splitting when releasing the bullet. I believe there is something about time and distance that reloaders do not understand. ME? I want all the bullet hold I can get, that makes me the only one because all the other reloaders have an infatuation with neck tension. And then again, I suggest reloaders go out and purchase R. Lee's book on modern reloading. And then? Read the reloading forums when wanting to know what the book says about reloading.

F. Guffey
 
The way I see it,
Pressure has moved the bullet into the throat, lodging it there WAY before pressure spikes enough to size that bullet enough to travel IN the barrel....
SO, the neck splitting *Shouldnt* effect the bullet entering the throat/barrel.

Since the neck splits and doesn't SEAL the gasses/pressure in the chamber, the neck *Might* allow reduced pressure that could possably effect accuracy...

As for 'Neck Tension', enough to handle the bullet during the chambering process WITHOUT HEAVY CRIMPING, that's usually enough.
In my experience, heavy crimping effects accuracy detrimentally, so generally I stay away from heavy crimps, all else being equal...

Any deforming the bullet sides (what heavy crimping does) should be expected to cause inconsistencies, while lighter crimps in cannulred bullets don't seem to effect accuracy in my experience.

Just as a side note, has nothing to do with the OP's question,
I find that *Slightly* increased neck tension normally removes the need for heavy crimps,
AND,
NOT heavy crimping makes the brass live longer.
(Nothing helps brass longevity like proper annealing and reasonable chamber pressures, since neck splits won't help blown out primer pockets from high pressures)

With my loading experience, pushing a reasonable weight .223 bullet (50-60 grain) at 2,800-2,900 FPS the brass lasts MUCH longer than trying to push the same bullet at 3,100-3,200 FPS, which is pretty easy to figure.

Case Rollers are expensive, but *Can* restore slightly oversized primer pockets,
Volume Annealers are expensive, but provide longer case life along with an'Base Line' hardness (or softness, depending on view point) when you are loading for accuracy.
That CONSISTANT base line solves a lot of issues, but is expensive to achieve.
 
Annealers are expensive, but provide longer case life along with an'Base Line' hardness (or softness, depending on view point) when you are loading for accuracy.
That CONSISTANT base line solves a lot of issues, but is expensive to achieve.
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I saw a two torch annealing system online yesterday. It has a shell holder and you put some of that 750 degree liquid in the neck, and if you want to some 450 degree liquid down the shell body. This ensures the neck and shoulder gets annealed while the case head doesn't.

It's $100 ... I am thinking about trying it. It is supposed to do 500 rounds an hour and the two torches aimed at the neck helps ensure even heat.

Any thoughts on that?
 
As for 'Neck Tension', enough to handle the bullet during the chambering process WITHOUT HEAVY CRIMPING, that's usually enough.
In my experience, heavy crimping effects accuracy detrimentally, so generally I stay away from heavy crimps, all else being equal...
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Neck tension? I do not have neck tension I have bullet hold, it was that way when I started; and then; when everyone went to neck tension I continued with bullet hold. In the big inning I said there is no way to measure neck tension 'but' if there was a way it would be measured in pounds and then? There you are, back to measuring bullet hold in pounds.

F. Guffey
 
I shot quite a few new in the box Savage .22 HiPower made by Sellior&Bellot. I would say about 3 out of 10 new cases split. I have a really snug chamber, but the brass is just too hard. I never noticed a difference in accuracy, but it is open sights.
I think some brass hardens with age. I have had a lot of neck/shoulder splits on old surplus ammo.
 
I too have had some factory fresh 308 ammo based on "recycled" FLC cases that arrived with cracks in the neck. Never had it happen in AR15 ammo, except for the "funky" cases that undergo lots of expansion and contraction after many firings. Cartridges like the grendel have a propensity for enough case stretch after each firing that I have to knock the shoulder back after resizing. My guess is that eventually that cycle of brass flow and compressing back causes the neck to split from brittleness--but I usually get quite a few firings (many warm loads too) before that happens
 
I've NOT found the 450*F paint needed a lot,
Since I electrical anneal (no direct flame to OUTSIDE of case) I make the paint mark a little long and that shows me exactly where the annealing stopped.

I use an 800*F 'Dot' on the other side of the case to make sure I don't exceed maximum 'Safe' temp.
Above 800*F I got a LOT of neck splits, even neck/shoulder seperation left stuck in the chamber.
(In the early days, when I was looking for a 'Glow' instead of using paint or thermocouple)

Under 800-900*F I don't have issues, the brass doesn't go mono-crystalline, so it expands & contracts like it's supposed to.

When you use gas, you MUST paint the inside of the case neck, that limits what you can use the paint for since you can't see down into the case very far.

The *Big Idea* here, is to learn to TIME the brass in the flame,
Use an occasional painted case to check your timing.
The case paint WILL discolor the case!

If you have no sense of timing at all, and no mechanical timer to remove case from flame, you WILL have to paint each case, and clean the cases again before use.

Something I found out from trial & error,
Don't do a bunch of cases at one time!
The more you do at once, the farther your timing will be off...
Do a few 'Bench' grade brass, then use painted cases to judge time again before you do some more, take breaks!
Someone out there might have a perfect sense of timing, I'm not that guy...

Now, having used an electrical solenoid to 'Pop' the case out of the flame and out of a hot die,
(Another mistake coming)
I found it a BAD THING to throw a hot case into the air!
First off, chasing it is a pain,
Secondly, your reflex to CATCH a hot case will make you regret the action!

I don't know your electrical/mechanical ability level, but a $5 eBay digital timer, and $5-$10 electrical solenoid would be a good investment if you want to do a lot of cases.
Simply tilt the case out of the flame when the timer times out.
Those timers are cheap and usually have 1/10 second accuracy.
 
If you have no sense of timing at all, and no mechanical timer to remove case from flame, you WILL have to paint each case, and clean the cases again before use.
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All a reloader has to do is scroll through the annealing threads on this forum; we have members that paint every case inside and out. In my travels I have found Chestnut trees, I found 6 in northern New Jersey and the most amazing one I found was on the east side of the Hudson south of Yonkers.

F. Guffey
 
The answer is annealing, annealing, annealing. Rifle is much easier with the annealing machines. Some gun shops have these machines available for use by customers. It costs only a few cents per case, but it is worth while. The additional benefit is that you get even tension from case to case on the neck area and thereby resulting in smaller extreme spread in velocity.

With pistol it is not that easy but then on the other hand cases are much cheaper. There are guys who anneal pistol cases by dropping the neck area of the case in molten lead. I have never tried this so I cannot say if it is worth while.
 
All a reloader has to do is scroll through the annealing threads on this forum; we have members that paint every case inside and out. In my travels I have found Chestnut trees, I found 6 in northern New Jersey and the most amazing one I found was on the east side of the Hudson south of Yonkers.
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Huh?
 
I've got about 7K 5.56 LC brass that I reload. I've not had any neck splits so far. But I'm only on my 2nd reloading of that brass. I think I've read where neck splits is the most likely failure for LC 5.56 brass.
 
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