Sphinx Sub-Compact warning... Maybe too tight.

W

WVsig

New member
As some of you know I am a huge fan of the new Sphinx pistols. I have an Alpha Compact and will also be getting a Standard once it comes out.

Unfortunately I have to report that the sub-compact seems to have issues. I have now read reports of three different sub-compacts not returning to battery. I have a 4th in my possession. Actually it is on its way back to Sphinx.

The gun is super tight. It would not return to battery with Geco 124gr and Freedom Munitons new 124gr. Both of these round have an OAL of 1.155" to 1.156".

The gun would not return to battery and would stop about 1/4" from full return. The gun would run 115 gr Blazer with no issues. I fired about 250 rounds and the failure rate stayed pretty consistent. I also did a plunk test with my reloads RMR RN 124gr, Speer Gold Dots 124gr, Winchester 147gr and Tula 115. The only ones that would spin were the Gold Dots. These rounds all have varying OALs so not sure what that means.

CZ clones and Sphinx guns in general are known to have tight chambers but I have never seen one this tight. My current 75B also fails the plunk test on some of the same rounds but still feeds them. Not sure why as I am not a gunsmith. LOL

The gun is super accurate and the build quality is high in terms of fit and finish just like my Compact but the gun seems to be very ammo picky. I called Sphinx and talked to them and they sent me a form to submit for an RMA. I filled it out an within 3 hours had an RMA number. This morning I had a call tag from Fedex in my in box. It should be in VA early next week. I will update this thread as I get more info.

The other 3 reports of issues with the Sphinx Sub-compact can be found on the Sig forum. One of the guns has already gone back to Sphinx where they replaced the slide stop and polished the feed ramp. They returned the gun in about 10 -12 days. The owner reports that the feeding issues are gone and that he believes it was the slide stop/release's tolerances are too tight.

I know there are a lot of other sub-compact owners who have not had issues with these guns but just giving people a heads up. If you are considering pulling the trigger on one you might wait a bit to see if this is an anomaly or a trend. I am hoping that this is an anomaly which Sphinx is correcting or has already corrected.
 
Well my Subcompact has returned. They replaced the barrel, slide stop, pivot and guide rod. They also replaced the rear sight which had a tool mark on it which was there prior to the gun being finished. IMHO should have been caught initially but they had no issues replacing it under warranty.

Took it out to the range and shot 250 rounds of mixed ammo. RWS, Greco, Tula, Winchester 147gr Ranger, 124Gr +p Gold Dots and a some Freedom munitions 124gr.

One thing I did notice breaking it down is that the new replacement barrel is a lot smoother in appearance than the one in my Compact. They are both polygon rifling but the one in the subcompact is mirror smooth. Other people report the same with their compacts. Reminds me of a CZ82 barrel in that it looks almost smooth. You really have to shine a light in there to catch the polygon rifling.

The gun shot lights out accurate for me at 7 and 10 yards which was all I had time to shoot at today. It just feels great in the hand. One of the most accurate sub-compacts I have ever shot. Also I think they might have smoothed the gun out a bit for me while it was there. The DA pull is coming in at 8lbs 13oz avg of 5 pulls and the SA is 4lbs 12ozs again avg of 5 pulls. I cannot remember what it was OTB but this is certainly lower than my Compact was.

The gun ran 100%. It was smooth and sweet. At this point I am going to continue to put it through its paces but I think they took care of the issues. I figure if I run another 250-500 rounds through it of mixed ammo it should be good to go. Hopefully it will continue to prove reliable and will become a trusted carry gun as it was intended.

So in the end I am not thrilled that it had to go back but they seem to have taken care of it and did so in about 2 1/2 Weeks door to door with a holiday in between.
 
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The[y] replaced the barrel, slide stop, pivot and guide rod.
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Nice to hear the customer service was good.

I'm unable to discern what the problem was. Given that four parts were replaced, did Sphinx know what the problem was?
 
The chamber was too tight/short. Along with a slide stop which IMHO was slightly out of spec.

A fair about of rounds would not spin when I chamber tested them. Now everything spins.
 
CZ had a similar problem with some of their compacts (Compact, PCR) when they were first introduced here in the U.S.

In that case it was also a short chamber (such that the nose of the bullet engaged the rifling before the round was fully chambered.) You could close the slide manually, but the gun wouldn't always chamber the next round automatically, as it should. (Ammo that was a bit out of spec made the problem more obvious.)

(I haven't tried 124 gr. in my SDP, yet. Will have to get some.)
 
"CZ had a similar problem with some of their compacts (Compact, PCR) when they were first introduced here in the U.S."
It's also what doomed the R51...the anti-Sphinx :D

TCB
 
I've been fortunate this has not happened to me Glad you brought it up to customer service to make them aware. Kriss told me they NEVER want any of their guns in the general population that's NOT 100% functional/reliable. Kriss/Sphinx is a different animal...YES....The tolerances are very tight on the SubCompact & Compact. The guns like HOT ammo. No weak ammo for this gun. Many people like to shoot cheap, bulk 115 gr ammo through these guns. Atlleast at first i would shoot HOT loads. Often manufacturers shy away from HOT loads. Not Sphinx.... Sphinx will tell you to shoot +P or +P+ through it and it will digest it with no problem. People in the US aren't used to such quality. This is Swiss Engineering

I have 33,000 rds through a Compact and 11,200 & 6,650 respectively through (2) SubCompacts using Speer GoldDot 124. Absolutely no problems at all. I had a surplus of 1.550 rds of 9BPLE 115+P+ and shot through the SubCompacts, the shooting was fantastic and they digested every round. These guns are a masterpiece. In fact I've sold 2 CZ Custom ProTek 1's on Gunbroker and currently have a CZ Custom P-01 on Gunbroker for sale...WHY? No need for them.....I've gone SPHINX. Customer service at Sphinx is great. David Kawai and Joe Corpuz are phenomenal. But I will say that the CZ Custom guns or CZ firearms are amazing firearms. I love them as well.
 
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Customer service at Sphinx is great. David Kawai and Joe Corpuz are phenomenal.
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My experience is a bit different. In filling out their online contact form, which is recommended you use, I never heard back. At all. Fair enough, email communication often goes unanswered. In calling them I was told the part I was looking for, a replacement Medium backstrap, is not in stock and they have no idea when they might have more. Check back in a month or so is what I was told.

I am not calling their CS terrible. But currently I'd have to rate it average compared to the rest of the industry. The woman on the phone was very nice, but it's disappointing to spend this much on a pistol and not be able to get replacement parts from the factory.
 
Just pick up the phone and call Kriss. Never rely on doing business using email. That's the problem we have here in the US is people always want to resort to texting and emailing and then we wonder why business never gets done or customers are unhappy...Call David Kawai or Joe Corpuz @ (714) 333-1988. They get right on the phone and will answer any questions or resolve a problem
 
With regard to KRISS...

My experience with Joe Corpuz has been absolutely first class. He's been good about returning calls, and will eventually respond to emails. I say eventually because Kriss is very actively out promoting, selling, doing major gun shows, etc., and reps like Corpuz spend a LOT of time on the road, working with distributors, gun dealers, etc.

Email directed to an individual should generally get answered, but email is far easier to postpone than a phone call. Emails to a "generic" address will take longer in almost any organization.

EMAIL is never my chosen communications method if it's about something that must (or should) be addressed quickly.
 
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I'd suggest people actually read my post in full, and you'll see I did call them. Even I admitted email has its limitations, when I said:
Fair enough, email communication often goes unanswered.
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Again folks, I said:
I am not calling their CS terrible. But currently I'd have to rate it average compared to the rest of the industry.
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This is far from me bad mouthing them. There's a danger in becoming such a fan that you can't accept hearing a less than stellar word. I like the product too, I'm just letting folks know my experience as others did. I'll try calling back and see if I get a different result.
 
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TunnelRat said:
I'd suggest people actually read my post in full, and you'll see I did call them. Even I admitted email has its limitations, when I said:
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Maybe some of us DID actually read your post in full...

I was responding to and reinforcing HALO51's comments, to wit:

That's the problem we have here in the US is people always want to resort to texting and emailing and then we wonder why business never gets done or customers are unhappy...Call David Kawai or Joe Corpuz @ (714) 333-1988. They get right on the phone and will answer any questions or resolve a problem.​

My experience matches HALO51's ... and my response was for the benefit of others here who might think EMAIL is the preferred contact method. (Please note: I didn't accuse YOU of that error.)

The last time I emailed Joe, he CALLED me back, apologized for the delay in responding quickly. He said he had been tied up at SHOT SHOW, where he and some KRISS reps. had been setting up the booth and then manning the booth and demonstrating equipment...
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but having worked on the other side of tech support/customer service, I have always preferred email for two reasons:

(1) Written descriptions of technical issues are almost always far clearer than verbal.
(2) I like having an electronic paper trail showing everything that has gone back and forth.

Both of those apply both ways - it's better for both the consumer and the service rep.
 
Independent George said:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but having worked on the other side of tech support/customer service, I have always preferred email for two reasons:



(1) Written descriptions of technical issues are almost always far clearer than verbal.

(2) I like having an electronic paper trail showing everything that has gone back and forth.



Both of those apply both ways - it's better for both the consumer and the service rep.
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This is my thought as well. Like I said the website has a contact sheet right next to the phone number listing that is linked to from the warranty page. It takes up the majority of the page and is front and center while the telephone numbers are in a smaller pane on the left. I tried it basically for curiosity. I got a nice confirmation email saying they got my question, just no follow up. I have had the same occur with S&W. I knew I would likely have to call but part of me owning this pistol for my review is seeing how the customer service department works. I'm trying to be objective.

I didn't speak on the phone to anyone mentioned above. Perhaps the woman I spoke to was filling in (she seemed a bit confused on the phone about what I was asking for at first). I'll call again this coming week and ask to speak to the names listed above.
 
I thought these were ultra high quality guns? They can't run the same ammo my Glock, Smith, CZ or browning can run?
 
It sounds like the chamber reamer is cut for too short a leade; that is usually the case when bullets with one ogive will seat and those with another ogive won't. And that in turn might be due to a maker using one or a few ammo brands as his standard rather than going by the SAAMI or other specs.

Jim
 
Well I am glad they got it resolved for you WVsig but your experiences, and the many others I have read about having problems with the SDP subcompact, has kept from even considering one - at least for now. Maybe some day in the future when it is apparent that a problem no longer exists with current production.

Thanks for explaining what the fix was also. Other Sphinx fans had been explaining the problem as that they are built to such high standards and are so tight they just need break in time with the right ammo :rolleyes:. Well that turned out to be wrong and it gets very expensive testing out with premium SD ammo. This is being marketed as the SDP - self defense pistol and IMO should be good to go out of the box with a wide variety of popular SD ammo.

I still might get a Sphinx Compact SDP and have heard/read of very few issues with the Compact and a lot of impressive reports.
 
My experience is a bit different. In filling out their online contact form, which is recommended you use, I never heard back. At all. Fair enough, email communication often goes unanswered. In calling them I was told the part I was looking for, a replacement Medium backstrap, is not in stock and they have no idea when they might have more. Check back in a month or so is what I was told.
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TunnelRat.

What is up with the medium backstrap if you care to share? Was it defective, not included, or you lost it??

What briefly, if you care to share, is your first impressions shooting your SDP Compact assuming you have gotten to the range with it? Thumbs up/down, neutral, or still forming opinion? A keeper?

I am hoping to try one out soon. I found a gun store about half and hour away that has one in their rental case.
 
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The backstrap is admittedly my own stupidity. When I first got the pistol I was excited obviously and I wanted to try the small backstrap. In order to remove the current backstrap you have to drift out a pin at the base of the backstrap like a lot of pistols I've owned. The difference here is that this pin is relatively long and takes up almost the whole length of the channel it fits in and is almost flush with the outside of the grip. When I went to drift the pin out my hand jerked and instead of hitting the punch square on top of the pin with my hammer the punch slipped and when hit by the hammer gouged a gash in the base of the grip. The medium and larger grips appear to have a rubber overmolding on top of a polymer base so despite a relatively weak hit the punch pierced right through that overmolding. See the attached picture.



Now is this my fault? Yup. I would prefer the pin be a bit shorter in length and not be flush with the outside of that channel so that when you line up the punch the punch is partially in the hole so the punch can't shfit as much (HK uses a slightly undersized roll pin in a similar system). I have no problem paying for a replacement as it's my own doing (and it's just for vanity since the grip is still fine), there just aren't available or a known date of when they might be available according to the woman I talked to.

As for the pistol itself I would say it's of noticeably better machining than SIG for roughly the same money. Shop around because I got mine for $844 from a local FFL. The trigger is heavy but I ordered a spring kit from Cajun Gun Works and that helped a lot and was relatively easy to install (Dave, the owner, was even kind enough to send me a 11.5 lb. hammer spring at no cost when the kit didn't quite get the results I wanted). It shoots dramatically softer than my CZ P-01. It's like shooting 115 gr budget ammo vs. Speer Gold Dot +p ammo in feel with the Sphinx vs. CZ. That said the pistol has needed some breaking in. For the first 50 rds or so the slide would not lock back on the first round. At first I thought it was hand placement and I was riding the slide stop with my off hand but even single handed it was still doing it. After 150 rds it seems to be locking back regularly. This is not a pistol I would honestly recommend running right from the box as I think the tolerances do require a break in (if you don't want that or think that's "right" that's perfectly understandable in my book).

The other gripe I have is that the rear sight is drifted noticeably right from factory. I'm not sure what sight pusher will fit this, but more concerning than that is beyond a press fit the rear sight uses two set screws to hold it in place. That's great in terms of quality of engineering but the set screws appear to be hex screws 1.5 mm in diameter. They're in the rear sight so tight that I'm fairly certain I'd have to torque the hex screw so much and 1.5 mm is a very thin wrench that I'd break my wrench. I'm a bit unsure what to do. The gun does print noticeably, maybe 1-1.5", right at 12 yards or so. I attached a picture of the sight and the group (I was shooting controlled pairs).



 
I got the following from Joe Corpuz (at Kriss) some months back when asking about which tools was needed to loosen the set screws:

Evening Walt,

Got the answer for you.

1.5mm Allen key.

It's held by green loctite so apply a little bit of heat with a hair dryer or heat gun to get it loose.

If you're having trouble getting it loose let me know.

Best regards,

-Joe​

I did as Joe wrote, and it was esy.

(Harbor Freight has a great heat gun for less than $10 -- and I've used it for so many different things, including reshaping plastic holsters -- that its one of the best "tool" purchases I've ever made. :)
 
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