I have reloaded the 185's and 230's and function just fine in my 1911. Due to reloads possibly being questioned in a lawsuit if used in self defense, I went with the 200 +P factory loads. With 518lbs of energy, they should do what I need them to do. Does anybody have any insight on these loads?
Speer Gold Dots 45 200gr +P. Anybody use?
- Thread starter t45
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Rampant_Colt
New member
518 ft. lbs of muzzle energy doesn't stop the bad guys, putting holes where they weren't intended to be does.
Having said that, in real-world shootings the 200gr Gold Dot has a reputation of clogging with clothing material and not expanding like the 230gr bullet design. I would avoid using it until more positive results are available.
Just use the reloads▬all this fuss over getting sued for using handloads is blown way out of proportion. A good shoot is a good shoot. How would they even be able to tell if you were using handloads unless you mentioned it.
Having said that, in real-world shootings the 200gr Gold Dot has a reputation of clogging with clothing material and not expanding like the 230gr bullet design. I would avoid using it until more positive results are available.
Just use the reloads▬all this fuss over getting sued for using handloads is blown way out of proportion. A good shoot is a good shoot. How would they even be able to tell if you were using handloads unless you mentioned it.
I thought I read a few years ago where Speer had revised their 200gr +P GDHP to better resist plugging.
If I'm remembering correctly, that may have been before their introduction of the 200gr .45GAP, and they would seem to have had a vested interest in making the 200gr bullet a good performer in the GAP load.
You'll notice their Short barrel load is available in the 230gr GDHP load.
I once was given most of a case of 200gr +P GDHP. I thought I'd used most of it up for range ammo, but I came across a box of it a while back when I was sorting through some ammo I hadn't been using for some years.
I never cared for the increased muzzle blast and felt recoil, myself, so I didn't use it for carry ammo.
That's the same way I feel about the 185gr +P loads, too.
I prefer the standard pressure 230gr loads, although I do have quite a bit of the Ranger RA45TP 230gr +P left in my collection which I primarily set aside for occasional use in my larger .45's. Interestingly enough, the RA45TP load seems more controllable when fired out of my M&P 45 compared to when I was shooting it in 1911's and an issued 4566TSW.
I don't think Gary Roberts has added the 200gr +P GDHP to his recommended list of duty rounds, if that has any importance to you (the 230gr standard and +P GDHP's were on the list last time I looked).
When it comes right down to it, I'd be much more concerned about how ANY given load fed, fired and functioned in my own .45's before I'd even begin to give much thought to ME figures.
Just my thoughts, though.
Sorry, but I don't have a definitive answer for you.
If I'm remembering correctly, that may have been before their introduction of the 200gr .45GAP, and they would seem to have had a vested interest in making the 200gr bullet a good performer in the GAP load.
You'll notice their Short barrel load is available in the 230gr GDHP load.
I once was given most of a case of 200gr +P GDHP. I thought I'd used most of it up for range ammo, but I came across a box of it a while back when I was sorting through some ammo I hadn't been using for some years.
I never cared for the increased muzzle blast and felt recoil, myself, so I didn't use it for carry ammo.
That's the same way I feel about the 185gr +P loads, too.
I prefer the standard pressure 230gr loads, although I do have quite a bit of the Ranger RA45TP 230gr +P left in my collection which I primarily set aside for occasional use in my larger .45's. Interestingly enough, the RA45TP load seems more controllable when fired out of my M&P 45 compared to when I was shooting it in 1911's and an issued 4566TSW.
I don't think Gary Roberts has added the 200gr +P GDHP to his recommended list of duty rounds, if that has any importance to you (the 230gr standard and +P GDHP's were on the list last time I looked).
When it comes right down to it, I'd be much more concerned about how ANY given load fed, fired and functioned in my own .45's before I'd even begin to give much thought to ME figures.
Just my thoughts, though.
Sorry, but I don't have a definitive answer for you.
Officer's Match
New member
I use a lot of 200gr Gold Dot in my GAP's and find it to be excellent. My three favorites are it along with 230gr HST and 230gr Golden Saber Bonded.
Massad Ayoob; 200gr JHP Speer Gold Dot +P...
Noted writer & tactics instructor; Massad Ayoob wrote in a few articles that he used the Speer 200gr JHP +P .45acp round. Years ago(1990-1991) Ayoob tested different factory made .45acp rounds on living steers under controlled conditions in a slaughterhouse. It's somewhat dated but the 200gr JHP CCI/Speer round did well. Other 185gr & 230gr JHP loads are on the market but I too would get the 200gr Speer Gold Dot +P. It seems to offer a good balance of power(KE) & speed(vel).
The Speer 200gr JHP was nicked-named the "flying ashtray" but it has many supporters.
Noted writer & tactics instructor; Massad Ayoob wrote in a few articles that he used the Speer 200gr JHP +P .45acp round. Years ago(1990-1991) Ayoob tested different factory made .45acp rounds on living steers under controlled conditions in a slaughterhouse. It's somewhat dated but the 200gr JHP CCI/Speer round did well. Other 185gr & 230gr JHP loads are on the market but I too would get the 200gr Speer Gold Dot +P. It seems to offer a good balance of power(KE) & speed(vel).
The Speer 200gr JHP was nicked-named the "flying ashtray" but it has many supporters.
Rampant_Colt
New member
Speer's 200gr JHP "Flying Ashtray" hasn't been in production for over ten years now.. The 200gr Gold Dot that replaced it has a sketchy record. I would stick with the 230gr Gold Dot
My sentiments exactly, I have a 4506 with it's magazine stoked with these lying under my pillow at night...gives me great dreams! I still have the ammo and the bullet that I periodically reload so I won't shoot up all the factory CorBon ammo. Great ammo and one I'd trust my life to. I only wish they'd make a run of it again. It's always fed in my 4506 reliably and accurately. Yep-I'm a great advocate of the old Speer 200 gr "Flying Ashtray".
Attachments
CCI Speer 200gr JHP vs latest(2010) Speer Gold Dot 200gr JHP +P loads...
I'm a bit confused by a few of the topic posts about the Speer 200gr JHPs;
Is the most recent Speer Gold Dot 200gr JHP +P .45acp different or "not as good" as the older CCI-Speer 200gr JHP .45acp pistol round(1990-2000 era)?
How or why would Speer change it? I too, would use the 230gr JHP +P from Winchester Ranger T or Remington Golden Saber(bonded) if the 200gr JHP Gold Dot isn't up to spec.
Clyde
ps: Corbon DPX & DoubleTap Ammo; www.doubletapammo.com , are worth a eval too.
I'm a bit confused by a few of the topic posts about the Speer 200gr JHPs;
Is the most recent Speer Gold Dot 200gr JHP +P .45acp different or "not as good" as the older CCI-Speer 200gr JHP .45acp pistol round(1990-2000 era)?
How or why would Speer change it? I too, would use the 230gr JHP +P from Winchester Ranger T or Remington Golden Saber(bonded) if the 200gr JHP Gold Dot isn't up to spec.
Clyde
ps: Corbon DPX & DoubleTap Ammo; www.doubletapammo.com , are worth a eval too.
The ammo companies are sometimes revising and refining the performance characteristics of their premium loads due to LE/Gov request.
Making a bullet that will robustly expand in the difficult 4-layer denim testing scenario, and resist plugging in that test, is a demanding task.
Fortunately, the non-LE/Gov buyer can still benefit from the results when it comes to a couple of the premium loads that are available over the counter, like the Speer GDHP and the standard Rem GS (non-bonded). Also, the ammo companies have been coming up with increasingly better selections of defensive rounds which are being marketed directly to the public.
The info I heard several years ago regarding the refinement of the 200gr +P GDHP was that the company had improved the bullet to better resist plugging in the harder testing protocols. Maybe so. Kind of like how Federal reportedly revised their early HST for the same reason.
The current T-Series load has benefited from revisions along the way, too.
Making a bullet that will robustly expand in the difficult 4-layer denim testing scenario, and resist plugging in that test, is a demanding task.
Fortunately, the non-LE/Gov buyer can still benefit from the results when it comes to a couple of the premium loads that are available over the counter, like the Speer GDHP and the standard Rem GS (non-bonded). Also, the ammo companies have been coming up with increasingly better selections of defensive rounds which are being marketed directly to the public.
The info I heard several years ago regarding the refinement of the 200gr +P GDHP was that the company had improved the bullet to better resist plugging in the harder testing protocols. Maybe so. Kind of like how Federal reportedly revised their early HST for the same reason.
The current T-Series load has benefited from revisions along the way, too.
Bullet designs, engineering, vel/KE...
To me, the 200gr JHP .45acp is a good concept but as posted revised or improved bullet designs help too. Driving bands, nickel jackets, bonding, power mixtures along with engineering do offer more choices in 2010.
Some .45acp loads have more power & speed. This, to me, is a factor in selecting a carry/duty round. To negate the KE level or vel is like saying you want a powerful sports car then saying an engine's horsepower isn't a factor.
To me, the 200gr JHP .45acp is a good concept but as posted revised or improved bullet designs help too. Driving bands, nickel jackets, bonding, power mixtures along with engineering do offer more choices in 2010.
Some .45acp loads have more power & speed. This, to me, is a factor in selecting a carry/duty round. To negate the KE level or vel is like saying you want a powerful sports car then saying an engine's horsepower isn't a factor.
GlockLockPop
Inactive
Speer Gold Dot 200 grain +p jhp
Here is a video showing ballistic gel test for this round.
It is very impressive. Outstanding expansion starting as soon
after an inch in and around 2 inches devastating expansion.
It also doesn't over-penetrate which is great for apartment
situations or home defense overall. Not sure why
anyone would give this round a bad rap. Its better
than the 230 grain as far as expansion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ
Here is a video showing ballistic gel test for this round.
It is very impressive. Outstanding expansion starting as soon
after an inch in and around 2 inches devastating expansion.
It also doesn't over-penetrate which is great for apartment
situations or home defense overall. Not sure why
anyone would give this round a bad rap. Its better
than the 230 grain as far as expansion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ
jglsprings
New member
Zombie thread...
The topic that will never die.
The topic that will never die.