speaking of conspiracies...

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pitz96

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Here's an interesting conspiracy theory printed on the website of the British newspaper the Guardian (www.guardian.co.uk):

Did the CIA kill Bobby Kennedy?

In 1968, Robert Kennedy seemed likely to follow his brother, John, into the White House. Then, on June 6, he was assassinated - apparently by a lone gunman. But Shane O'Sullivan says he has evidence implicating three CIA agents in the murder

Monday November 20, 2006
The Guardian

At first, it seems an open-and-shut case. On June 5 1968, Robert Kennedy wins the California Democratic primary and is set to challenge Richard Nixon for the White House. After midnight, he finishes his victory speech at the Ambassador hotel in Los Angeles and is shaking hands with kitchen staff in a crowded pantry when 24-year-old Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan steps down from a tray-stacker with a "sick, villainous smile" on his face and starts firing at Kennedy with an eight-shot revolver.

As Kennedy lies dying on the pantry floor, Sirhan is arrested as the lone assassin. He carries the motive in his shirt-pocket (a clipping about Kennedy's plans to sell bombers to Israel) and notebooks at his house seem to incriminate him. But the autopsy report suggests Sirhan could not have fired the shots that killed Kennedy. Witnesses place Sirhan's gun several feet in front of Kennedy, but the fatal bullet is fired from one inch behind. And more bullet-holes are found in the pantry than Sirhan's gun can hold, suggesting a second gunman is involved. Sirhan's notebooks show a bizarre series of "automatic writing" - "RFK must die RFK must be killed - Robert F Kennedy must be assassinated before 5 June 68" - and even under hypnosis, he has never been able to remember shooting Kennedy. He recalls "being led into a dark place by a girl who wanted coffee", then being choked by an angry mob. Defence psychiatrists conclude he was in a trance at the time of the shooting and leading psychiatrists suggest he may have be a hypnotically programmed assassin.

Three years ago, I started writing a screenplay about the assassination of Robert Kennedy, caught up in a strange tale of second guns and "Manchurian candidates" (as the movie termed brainwashed assassins). As I researched the case, I uncovered new video and photographic evidence suggesting that three senior CIA operatives were behind the killing. I did not buy the official ending that Sirhan acted alone, and started dipping into the nether-world of "assassination research", crossing paths with David Sanchez Morales, a fearsome Yaqui Indian.

Morales was a legendary figure in CIA covert operations. According to close associate Tom Clines, if you saw Morales walking down the street in a Latin American capital, you knew a coup was about to happen. When the subject of the Kennedys came up in a late-night session with friends in 1973, Morales launched into a tirade that finished: "I was in Dallas when we got the son of a bitch and I was in Los Angeles when we got the little bastard." From this line grew my odyssey into the spook world of the 60s and the secrets behind the death of Bobby Kennedy.

Working from a Cuban photograph of Morales from 1959, I viewed news coverage of the assassination to see if I could spot the man the Cubans called El Gordo - The Fat One. Fifteen minutes in, there he was, standing at the back of the ballroom, in the moments between the end of Kennedy's speech and the shooting. Thirty minutes later, there he was again, casually floating around the darkened ballroom while an associate with a pencil moustache took notes.

The source of early research on Morales was Bradley Ayers, a retired US army captain who had been seconded to JM-Wave, the CIA's Miami base in 1963, to work closely with chief of operations Morales on training Cuban exiles to run sabotage raids on Castro. I tracked Ayers down to a small town in Wisconsin and emailed him stills of Morales and another guy I found suspicious - a man who is pictured entering the ballroom from the direction of the pantry moments after the shooting, clutching a small container to his body, and being waved towards an exit by a Latin associate.

Ayers' response was instant. He was 95% sure that the first figure was Morales and equally sure that the other man was Gordon Campbell, who worked alongside Morales at JM-Wave in 1963 and was Ayers' case officer shortly before the JFK assassination.

I put my script aside and flew to the US to interview key witnesses for a documentary on the unfolding story. In person, Ayers positively identified Morales and Campbell and introduced me to David Rabern, a freelance operative who was part of the Bay of Pigs invasion force in 1961 and was at the Ambassador hotel that night. He did not know Morales and Campbell by name but saw them talking to each other out in the lobby before the shooting and assumed they were Kennedy's security people. He also saw Campbell around police stations three or four times in the year before Robert Kennedy was shot.

This was odd. The CIA had no domestic jurisdiction and Morales was stationed in Laos in 1968. With no secret service protection for presidential candidates in those days, Kennedy was guarded by unarmed Olympic decathlete champion Rafer Johnson and football tackler Rosey Grier - no match for an expert assassination team.

Trawling through microfilm of the police investigation, I found further photographs of Campbell with a third figure, standing centre-stage in the Ambassador hotel hours before the shooting. He looked Greek, and I suspected he might be George Joannides, chief of psychological warfare operations at JM-Wave. Joannides was called out of retirement in 1978 to act as the CIA liaison to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) investigating the death of John F Kennedy.

Ed Lopez, now a respected lawyer at Cornell University, came into close contact with Joann-des when he was a young law student working for the committee. We visit him and show him the photograph and he is 99% sure it is Joannides. When I tell him where it was taken, he is not surprised: "If these guys decided you were bad, they acted on it.

We move to Washington to meet Wayne Smith, a state department official for 25 years who knew Morales well at the US embassy in Havana in 1959-60. When we show him the video in the ballroom, his response is instant: "That's him, that's Morales." He remembers Morales at a cocktail party in Buenos Aires in 1975, saying Kennedy got what was coming to him. Is there a benign explanation for his presence? For Kennedy's security, maybe? Smith laughs. Morales is the last person you would want to protect Bobby Kennedy, he says. He hated the Kennedys, blaming their lack of air support for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961.

We meet Clines in a hotel room near CIA headquarters. He does not want to go on camera and brings a friend, which is a little unnerving. Clines remembers "Dave" fondly. The guy in the video looks like Morales but it is not him, he says: "This guy is fatter and Morales walked with more of a slouch and his tie down." To me, the guy in the video does walk with a slouch and his tie is down.

Clines says he knew Joannides and Campbell and it is not them either, but he fondly remembers Ayers bringing snakes into JM-Wave to scare the secretaries and seems disturbed at Smith's identification of Morales. He does not discourage our investigation and suggests others who might be able to help. A seasoned journalist cautions that he would expect Clines "to blow smoke", and yet it seems his honest opinion.

As we leave Los Angeles, I tell the immigration officer that I am doing a story on Bobby Kennedy. She has seen the advertisements for the new Emilio Estevez movie about the assassination, Bobby. "Who do you think did it? I think it was the Mob," she says before I can answer.

"I definitely think it was more than one man," I say, discreetly.

Morales died of a heart attack in 1978, weeks before he was to be called before the HSCA. Joannides died in 1990. Campbell may still be out there somewhere, in his early 80s. Given the positive identifications we have gathered on these three, the CIA and the Los Angeles Police Department need to explain what they were doing there. Lopez believes the CIA should call in and interview everybody who knew them, disclose whether they were on a CIA operation and, if not, why they were there that night.

Today would have been Robert Kennedy's 81st birthday. The world is crying out for a compassionate leader like him. If dark forces were behind his elimination, it needs to be investigated

· Shane O'Sullivan's investigation will be shown tonight on Newsnight, BBC2, 10.30pm.
 
With regards to the CIA, I believe this quote says it all.

"Never have so many done so much that was so bad to so many others for so little discernible benefit to so few."

The history of the agency reads like a sci-fi/orson wells book culminating in awarding George Tenet with the medal of freedom. It would be scary if it wasn't funny.
 
Cia

Communists Infiltrated America. They have probably been a part of every thing bad that has happened to America. Get a rope.
 
Interesting......

but considering how much time has passed, what relevance is there today? The palyers in this tragedy are either dead or in advanced age. Those of us who were younger are getting old now, and kids today, generally don't know and don't care.

Other that to indicate a pattern and to imply that similiar things are going on today, information about the JFK and RFK cases is just that, intellectualy satisfying, but of what real relevance to today?

There is a movie about RFK due to be relased soon, and it will no doubt set the pot to boiling over this again. All that will be accomplished will be to make (a lot) of money for certain people.

Q: What two people changed the history of the 20th Century the most?
A: Adolf Hitler and Oliver Stone
 
Other that to indicate a pattern and to imply that similiar things are going on today, information about the JFK and RFK cases is just that, intellectualy satisfying, but of what real relevance to today?

Who was it that said "He who does not learn from history, is doomed to repeat it".

badbob
 
Quote:
Who was it that said "He who does not learn from history, is doomed to repeat it".
I believe it was the Bush Administration.

Ha, Ha!!:D The Bush Administration definately proved the accuracy of that statement.:eek:

badbob
 
but considering how much time has passed, what relevance is there today?

How about this. For the sake of arguement lets say they DID kill him (them). If that's the kind of business they were running 50 years ago, you can only imagine what they're doing today.

Oh wait, here we go.

"A safe estimate is that several hundred times every day (easily 100,000 times a year) [Directorate of Operations] officers engage in highly illegal activities (according to foreign law) that not only risk political embarrassment to the US but also endanger the freedom if not lives of the participating foreign nationals and, more than occasionally, of the clandestine officer himself. In other words, a typical 28 year old, GS-11 case officer has numerous opportunities every week, by poor tradecraft or inattention, to embarrass his country and President and to get agents imprisoned or executed." -from IC21: The Intelligence Community in the 21st Century, a staff study produced by the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house/intel/ic21/ic21_toc.html
 
Some of you would do well to look into Michael Rupert's work ...

Part of his BIO:

Mike is a former LAPD narcotics investigator, whistle blower and a 1973 Honors Graduate of UCLA in Political Science. After attempting to expose this (CIA Drug trafficking and attempt to recruit him to help with this movement) he was forced out of LAPD in 1978 while earning the highest rating reports possible and having no pending disciplinary actions. In 1996, after 18 years of struggle, he finally achieved one of his deepest wishes in a face to face public encounter with then CIA Director John Deutch on national television. Washington sources later told Mike that Deutch's mishandling of the encounter cost him a guaranteed appointment as Secretary of Defense.

Read , Crossing the Rubicon. It was added to the Harvard School of Business library this past year ... interesting info.

Rupert has now left the country after repeated attempts on his life.

The Record is Here

Learn More: OPENING REMARKS OF MICHAEL C. RUPPERT for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (WRITTEN STATEMENT WITH EXHIBITS)

Full Disclosure Part I – Michael Ruppert's LAPD records
Full Disclosure Part II – The Legal Record Around His 1978 LAPD Resignation

The 1981 Herald Examiner Stories – Two consecutive front page stories got it mostly right but confirmed that Ruppert had stumbled on illegal covert operations:
Part One
Part Two

"Mike Ruppert is a one man crusade trying to expose America's bogus war on drugs. From the time we met on the campaign trail in 1992 while filming THE LAST PARTY, through his challenge to John Deutch, Mike Ruppert has been on the front line trying to get the story out." - Marc Levin, - Emmy award winning Director of PBS's The Secret Government, THE LAST PARTY and Producer of Bill Moyers' 1998 series on Addiction.
 
"And more bullet-holes are found in the pantry than Sirhan's gun can hold"

My guns don't hold any bullet-holes, how about yours?

Accuracy in reporting? HA!

John

P.S. - Know why the CIA didn't kill Castro? They couldn't get him to go to Dallas. ;)
 
I think it was the KGB who killed Bobby.

Think about it. It's FAR too convenient that all of this has been pinned on the CIA.

It reeks of a well-orchestrated frame up.
 
You know, after nearly 30 years, people's memories can provide "facts" that, when properly questioned, can appear out of nowhere. Trouble is, they DID appear out of nowhere.

The missle trail to the airliner out of New York. That one's possible? Right?

The spare gunman at Dallas in '63. Now, three CIA agents, all either dead or disappeared, planned and carried out an assassinarion of a government official. If the author could find all of these other former CIA, military, and civilians to look at pictures, why couldn't he locate the last of the three supposed masterminds?

The CIA, despite all of it's detractors, plays in a world where illegal acts, as defined by foreign governments, is a fact of life. Like any other foreign intelligence group, they must deal with people who aren't going to make the top ten list in integrity, honesty, or even hygiene. Unlike most other agencies, the CIA is subject to scrutiny from a group of equally corrupt individuals, who willfully distort, malign, and spin what they do. They would be our politicians. Men and women who would sell their own familiea into slavery for a supposed political advantage. It was the politicians who determined that the CIA get out of Humint, and cut their budget to force compliance. These same people then screamed bloody murder when 9/11 occured, and they were told that we didn't have spy networks in place in the Middle East.

Would you work for an agency like the CIA? It's goals are clear, and it's purpose, when not subverted by politics, is noble. However, you could never be sure that what you did would remain secret. Your actions, undertaken for the good of the country, could be distorted, and your ability to defend those actions limited by the national security regulations that bind everyone but, it appears, political idiots. You're in it for the ling haul, while these diletanttes are just passing by, hoping to grab a little notoriety. Sounds like a job that I'd want.:barf:
 
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