Spain still wants Tomahawks for submarines

R

Randy in Arizona

New member
26-Apr-05

By L. Dickerson
WASHINGTON - Spain is still awaiting U.S. approval for the purchase of Tomahawk cruise missiles. The Spanish Navy wants the missile to arm its new S-80 diesel-electric submarines.

According to a BBC News report, Spain has been waiting since 2003 for the U.S. government to authorize the sale of 60 Tomahawk missiles. This deal could be worth nearly EUR50 million.

Source: Forecast International


Now I don't know is this is all that good an idea, Spain caved bigtime when Al Queda bombed their subway. Should sissies be trusted with Tomahawks?
What do they NEED them for anyway? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Randy in Arizona and All--

You have to think about our potential, future BIG TIME enemies. And, you have to contemplate what creates an enemy in the first place. I believe that in modern times--post crusades--enemies are created by some form of economic disparity.

So, what country, or alliance, or union of nations, is striving to form an economic alliance that challenges the United States of America?

--Bill
 
So what country, or alliance, or union of nations is striving to form an economic alliance that challenges the United States of America?
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And is politically and economically diameterically opposed to anything we do?

Surely you couldn't :rolleyes: be refering to the You're-a-Peein' Union or EU..........pronounced eeeeewww?
Also known as the Fourth Reich.

Sorry, didn't mean to call you surely. :D
 
Under other circumstances, I'd say sellum to Spain. The Spanish will go to the French if they don't get our stuff.

HOWEVER- I remember their elections after the train bombing. That country is as spineless as France, and hence, I don't want great weaponry going into the hands of spineless people. It really bugs me to condemn the people over the leadership, but that election wasn't due to bad leadership in Spain. It was due to bed-wetting people wanting to appease terrorists.

Nope- I would like to sell the Spanish maybe some pistols and rifles. They need to learn to walk before they run. As it stands now, they're prime for invasion by Morrocco the way the tucked tail two years ago. I would even venture to say that acts of spinelessness like that might even have Lichtenstein getting restless for military adventure! :eek:
 
Spain has a valid role in controlling sea lanes, due to its location. That requires the ability to deter enemy forces from interfering with commerce/transport along the Atlantic and Mediterranean coastlines, as well as the Straits of Gibraltar, roles for which diesel boats are perfect. Combine a diesel with a anti-ship Tomahawk, and you've got a very effective deterrence force.
 
I do not know why we would would want to sell arms to countries that have political ideologies hostile to our own; but it seems to have been common practice going back a very long way.
 
No....

If my vote were heard or considered it would be a big NO........ It comes right down to it, the money sounds nice but do we sell to the Spainish......NAW not me, not ever, sorry maybe the Germans or French can help them out with something to use in their new subs. I think as long as Bush's in office they will be wishing they could buy them too. ;)
 
How can u afford to be so F#¤%¤ ignorant!!?? The Euros have a long history of making exellent weapons of war and can supply the Spanish navy if they dont get the Tomahawks. I really dig the United States of America, but i really hate the ignorant peeps that walk the earth thinking that they are the best.
 
Mikkel,
Ignorant- of many things yes. But of judging character- a component of which is courage, is not hard to do. The Europeans have a long, long, history of producing incredible weapons. The names Howitzer, Mauser, Sauer, Airbus, and many, many others come to mind. While we aren't the only suppliers of Cruise missiles in the world, a general agreement to sell weapons from the United States is also seen as an unofficial stamp of approval.

Taiwan, Japan, Israel are just a few countries who get the high-tech stuff from us, and they know that we will stand beside them in a time of crisis. If you get weaponry from the French, that only means that they will cash your check. You may be using them to fight off the French later.

If I recall my History well, in 1936, the French Army was the most powerful, well-equipped, well-trained Army in the world. What they lacked was a will to defend themselves. Cowardice. Unlike the Norwegians who continued to fight on through the war for their independance, the French for the most part caved in to a stronger will.

The Spanish Blinked in the face of terrorism. They took themselves out of the game, and hence, I oppose selling them weaponry. There isn't some absolute that the Spanish are going to defend the straits of Gibraltar any better than the two or three nuclear subs we have there now guarding the place. There isn't likely to be any real challenges to the unseen authority.

About the only thing Spain gives us is Basing rights at Rota, but it isn't like we can't move our stuff to Sicilly or any number of places in the Med. The naval base at Rota provides a HUGE economic benefit to the local economy, and provides Spain the security that they can count on. It reduces their need to invest in weaponry.

When I look at decisions of the US, I only look at OUR long-term best interests, not the best interests of the European Community because they don't spend a lot of time making decisions based on the good interests of the United States.
 
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Hmmmm

kjm.......... Thanks for that very interesting and true representation of my exact feelings. I think you went about it in a more professional manner than I would have done. It is nice to see new folks on the Line. Seems a little harsh tone for a new neighbor but we won't hold that against him/her. You forgot CZ too. I just enjoy those wonderful bolts they build. Very nice shooting rifles. :)
 
Yeah Rojoe, I love my Sig Pistols and CZ rifles have got to be the best value for the money on this planet! It isn't that I don't like the Europeans (I only don't like the spineless Europeans), but I despise Cowardice.

I've noticed a lot of immigrants to the US hold close attachments to their ancestry. Italians (immigrants) are usually very proud to be Italians. Mexicans tend to be proud to be from Mexico, however, I THANK GOD that my great, great grandfather had the good sense to get the HELL out of the Czech Republic! I feel absolutely no attachment or affection for them except that they produce excellent rifles so maybe there's a twinge of respect. I don't wear t-shirts proclaiming a Czech heritage. I have far more respect for countries like Switzerland, and to a large degree, I have a respect for the Spanish people with the exception of their most recent elections. It isn't like they have a long, long, history of cowardice, just one little episode, so perhaps they're redeemable yet.

Oddly enough, we Americans are criticized frequently and openly for being ignorant about Europe (though it isn't really ignorance, but actually ethnocentrism), yet I see from Europeans, that they are some of the most ignorant people of American affairs.

I try to educate myself on European affairs, but being knowlegeable of their affairs doesn't mean that I am pro-European anymore than a European who is knowlegeable about US affairs is prone to be pro-United States.

Another thing about Europeans (don't get me wrong here, I think they have a fascinating history of which my family played some parts), is that everybody hates everybody else (except in Norway and Sweden where it's too dang cold to hate, love keeps them all warm). The Czechs hate the Austrians. The Poles hate the Russians and the Germans. The Germans hate themselves, the French hate the Spaniards, Czechs, Poles, Italians, half of the Swiss and anybody else in Europe. In order to be a European in good standing you must hate somebody.

Here- we don't hate ourselves or others. We like to just get along! :D

P.S.: Mikkel, Your English is fantastic. After reading your post, you didn't make a single gramatical error such as confusing their, they're, there, or many other mistakes that native speakers still can't get right! Great job- I wish I spoke and wrote Spanish as well as you do English. Still, some capitalization errors, but you are quite understandable compared to many folks here.
 
The Spanish people were vastly opposed to having their military in Iraq. The Spanish government's perceived cover-up regarding the Madrid action caused a new administration to be elected, one which was perceived to be more trust-worthy and also happened to be listening to the majority's opinions about the Iraq War.

It's easy to say that Spain "caved in" and was "spineless." It's harder to actually spend the time to understand the issue. Regardless, Spain has done plently to fight terrorism outside of Iraq. There's no credible reason to not sell them military technology that we're selling everyone else.
 
that everybody hates everybody else (except in Norway and Sweden where it's too dang cold to hate, love keeps them all warm).
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The Seattle area has a very large population of people of Scandanavian heritage; most notably from Norway and centered in the Ballard area of Seattle. Every May 17th is celebrated by parades and a street party in Ballard to commemorate Norwegian Independence Day. That's as in independence from Sweden. So although Norway and Sweden get along just fine now, it was not always the case, and you can still hear some of the older Norwegians muttering about Sweden......
 
The Spanish people were vastly opposed to having their military in Iraq. The Spanish government's perceived cover-up regarding the Madrid action caused a new administration to be elected, one which was perceived to be more trust-worthy and also happened to be listening to the majority's opinions about the Iraq War.
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The bombing happened very shortly before the elections. How could there have been time for a cover-up to take place, let alone for public sentiment to be that stirred up?
 
Wasn't the perceived cover-up something about the former Spanish government blaming the Basques right off the bat, then Usama Bin Laden sent out a tape claiming responsibility? IIRC, the Spainiards even picked up some Basques and a guy from the U.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, I had just gotten to Iraq then and I didn't have my office internet line set up yet, so my daily intake of news was rather limited back then.
 
The bombing happened very shortly before the elections. How could there have been time for a cover-up to take place, let alone for public sentiment to be that stirred up?
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As IZinterrogator indicated, the Spanish government immediately blamed their pet enemy, the ETA (Basque separatists), even when they had very clear evidence of Al-Qaeda involvement. When this came out, the Spanish people perceived it as the political manipulation of a great tragedy, and were understandably ticked off. It all happened within a week or so of the bombing and was very well reported.
 
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