Sooty 223 primer pocket

A

Akimbo223

Inactive
Hello everyone. I just got into reloading and fired my first batch over the weekend out of my ar15. Everything worked well. No cycling issues, no failures to eject, or failures to fire, or anything else. I was pretty proud they worked well. After retrieving the cases I noticed they were quite dirty around the primer area before depriming. Not sure if this is an issue, but I thought it was strange. My load was as follows:

60 grain spire point bullets
21.6 grains BLC-2 powder (second lowest recommended charge according to my data book)
Remington 7 1/2 primer
Case length 1.750 (per book)
Overall length 2.200 (per book)

If this is an issue, any suggestions/ideas are welcome.
 
Black/soot around the primer pocket is generally a sign of over pressure. Gasses are escaping around the primer.

Try seating the primer a little firmer and/or discard any brass that the primer almost just slides in.
 
Unfortunately i already cleaned them so i can't post a picture. Too much pressure would surprise me because the book states I'm near the bottom of their data, and I'm under its maximum suggested powder by 3.2 grains. I am loading using 223 data for a rifle stamped 5.56. Not sure if that might be why, but I also figured any powder amount suggested for 223 would be well under maximum for 5.56.
 
Gi brass. Swaged pockets to remove crimp?

When i look at Hodgdon data, of bullets in the 60 gr range (62 63 69) , your powder charge looks to light. Below the starting loads.
 
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The brass is mostly 5.56 originally from lake city. Some of it looks like it had crimped pocket primers, but not most. As far as swaging pockets all I did was use a primer pocket cleaner. The primers went in with some resistance, but nothing I would consider undue force. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are crimped primer pockets identified by four marks just outside of the pocket? I didn't do anything special for them as the primers went in without difficulty. (But they certainly weren't lose)
 
Most LC will have crimped primers. A stab crimp or a round type. Use google images search to see photos.

See above , pressure seems low?
 
Ok yea, I think they're pretty much all crimped. I didn't have any issue putting primers in. Wouldn't that crimp make priming the cases difficult? Also, why would not removing the crimp leak gases?

I don't know if the pressures were low. The gun cycled flawlessly and I never felt at risk of a squib. At the same time, I felt less recoil than store bought ammo.

PS. Thank you everyone for replying and helping. It seems there is a lot to learn and so far, I've pretty much been trying to do it on my own. Hopefully I will eventually be able to help people with it. :)
 
If you can seat a primer without smashing it, that works, but not recommended.

The gas leak is because your not using enough powder. This causes low pressure and the primer is not sealing correctly.


Check load data here http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

60 grain spire point bullets
21.6 grains BLC-2 powder (second lowest recommended charge according to my data book)
Remington 7 1/2 primer
Case length 1.750 (per book)
Overall length 2.200 (per book)
Click to expand...
 
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Note that different bullets, even of the same weight, may produce different pressure. See the difference in starting loads , using your powder . Look at Hodgdon data for 62, 63, and 69 gr.
 
Ok. I feel better that it is below pressure. I can understand what you're saying about gas leak. Basically, the primer should expand to seal the primer pocket when firing, and with too little powder/pressure, it cannot expand enough to do so. I guess I will try more powder.

Also, I bookmarked that Hodgdon load data page for future use. Interestingly, it suggests significantly more powder than my current load. I dont feel comfortable jumping up that much right away, but I guess Ill work several batches of increased loads.

Thank you very much. Not sure if there is a way to give give rep, but if there is I will.
 
Also, you don't just pick a charge started in a load manual and run it. I made 5 of each charge starting from min to max in. 3 grain increments to find the "sweet spot", using a chronograph and all that jazz . But I also make ammo that's for more than just blasting.

To me, not removing the crimp in the primer pocket, the crimp I would think would act as a sort of sizer, since the crimp is tighter than the actual pocket, so it would squish down the cup to a slightly smaller size, causing a gas leak. But that's just my brain thinking, I've never heard anything about it.

Also, bl-c2, being a ball powder, pretty much requires a magnum primer. I can't knock the Remington br's but I personally prefer federal#1 cci#2 and Winchester for my magnum revolver loads (#3)

Maybe try the magnum sr primers. Be it cci, Winchester, federal etc, or the cci #41's.

Also, what book are you using? Just curious
 
I can understand that. I don't, however, have the luxury of affording a chronograph and "all that jazz." I inherited a bunch of reloading stuff (equipment, books, bullets, powders etc) from my uncle just before he passed away. I never learned any reloading information from him or even how to use any of the equipment. I am learning everything from ground zero and trying not to blow myself up in the process.

As far as a primer pocket being crimped, I'll have to look into that. I didn't feel I was using undue force to seat the primers, nor did they look unusual after I inspected them, but this seems to be a hobby where thousandth of an inch matter, so my eyes probably wouldn't pick that up. Again, I'll have to see if there's anything I can do as far as crimps.

On my next reloads, I'm planning on using federal 205M. Do you have any experience with in ar15s? If so... good, bad, indifferent?

The book I've been using is Honady Handbook of Reloading, 3rd edition. I have no doubt that it is old.
 
You sound like you understand how to work up and be safe so good on ya. Keep working up slowly, you'll see soot on the case mouth start to lessen, maybe never fully go away. Keep an eye on those primers.

Btw you are correct that the primer should swell under pressure and seal. When seating you should feel steady resistance going in then a definite hard stop.
 
Chainsaw. said:
You sound like you understand how to work up and be safe so good on ya. Keep working up slowly, you'll see soot on the case mouth start to lessen, maybe never fully go away. Keep an eye on those primers.
Click to expand...

I must agree. I'm glad you're being safe

You're where I started about a year ago, so I'm still learning too

As for the federal 205M's, I don't have any experience with those. I use cci's 450's in AR's with blc2. You really do need magnum primers for ball powder to burn right(per Speer's manual)
 
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Also, unless you're actually shooting matches with your AR, match/bench rest primers are a wasted extra cent or two per round(that being said, I buy the 210M's by the brick)

I apologize if I'm coming across harsh, rude, stuck up, or any other negative adjective. That is not my intent. Just trying to pass on my (meager) knowledge of reloading and firearms that I have experience with.

Currently I load 223 with 50 grain Speer varmint bullets, bl-c2, and cci 450's.

I do plan on loading for longer ranges with 77 grain Sierra match kings, but still looking for a powder. And deffinetley match primers
 
Hodgdon's starting load for a 60 grain spire point is 25 grains. So this is low. Primer cups may have been deformed slightly inward by being pushed past the crimp, which wouldn't help. I, too, have been able to push primers past a .223 that still had its crimp—they aren't as tough as on 7.62 and .30-06 brass—but you'll get smoother, deeper and better seating with them properly cut away.

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I used to load 60 gn Nosler Partitions over BLC2, around 25 grain if memory serves but don't have the load notes in front of me. I also didn't use magnum primers which are the norm for BLC2 powder. They shot well but we're very very dirty, filthy cases after firing. My advice is remove the primer crimp, use magnum primers, and bump up the load. But may still be sooty on the outside after firing.
 
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