Something that seems to be missing

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Newton24b

Moderator
Ive compiled a few bits of oddities that i have found on here and in the big 'authoritative" magazines that have bothered me since i could read.

1. any semi auto is better then any size revolver. SIMPLY because the magazine can hold more ammo, and be reloaded faster under normal conditions.
being told that a 2inch barreled, 6 shot 25acp is a better saner choice for self defense then a 38 or 357 mag snub or kframe simply because it reloads faster is well lunacy. seriously, even the 32mag has better credentials in even the fbi standards.

2. a small semi auto is better to conceal then a small revolver.
problem is that MOST small semi autos dont have sights as good as your typical jframe does makes them extremely short range affairs. ive read to many gun review articles bring that point up, and quickly kill it becasue the "snubnose" semi auto is only intended for "10 foot distances".
yet when the same authors cant shoot a paperplate at 50 feet with a snubnose 357, they claim the snubnose is worthless because it has no ability to reach out and touch that coyote thats stealin your baby goat.

3. whenever someone wants a lowcost revolver to use, everyone tells them that they can get super good deals on used police trade ins from the local gunshow or gundealer.
thing is, whenever it comes time for me to look at one of these 30 year old wonders of engineering, the gundealers either refuse to handle the ffl shipping requirements, or try to sell me a worn out gun that the manufacturer would refuse to repair at current price. ie, i cant afford a brand new model 10, so why am i going to pay current msrp for one thats been in a holster for 20 years and shot to crap for qualifications?

4. when ever someone asks about a decent affordable revolver, they are pointed at used smiths, colts, or rugers that typically tend to have NO manufacturer support due to "we stopped making the required screw 40 years ago", or "we dont make that product anymore so we cant fix it", or "its past our accepted age range for factory work".
instead of being pointed at american companies that are actually making decent prices at affordable prices,
 
Regarding that last:

Where Colt is concerned, absolutely. S&W on the same issue, not as bad - as long as the gun is still a generally common type and post-WW2, the parts supply (and available gunsmiths) are OK.

But RUGER?

No, they don't even ask if you're the original owner or not, they provide excellent post-sales support no matter how old it is. Parts are still available for the Service/Security/Speed Six series DAs. They're also stone-axe simple to work on and even homebrew gunsmithing is well within the realm of possibility on most issues. Hell, the factory manuals (available as free PDFs plus disassembly videos free from Ruger) cover total tear-downs without violating any warranties.

Police trade-in Ruger GP100s are almost always a killer deal. Hell, GP100s are tough enough that I'd be willing to buy an ex-range-rental that's had about six gajillion rounds through it :).

Nope. Don't be generalizing unfairly on Ruger's post-sales support. They try *extremely* hard, better than anybody else in their price range with the sole exception of North American Arms, who also kick major butt in the post-sales-support realm on relatively inexpensive guns.

Mind you, S&W isn't "bad", but they're not as good as Ruger and their guns are more expensive in the same categories so you'd think the support ranking would be the other way around.

Colt's support for revolvers blows chunks, with the exception of the SAAs and even then it's iffy.

Taurus...well, they're like a retarded cousin who tries hard but they've got fail ingrained in their 3rd world DNA.

Hell, H&K's unofficial motto is "Because You Suck, And We Hate You!" (unless you're police or .mil).
 
ive read that when sw does a model change on a revolver and parts change, say a screw, they will stop producing the old parts and simply use the preexisting parts up when older guns come in for work. and when the parts are gone, you are out of luck.
 
Newton...

This my friend is what comes of reading and listening to so called experts. Nothing is more reliable than your own experiences.

I'll address your concernes based on my own experiences in order that you list them.

1) The Idea that any Autoloader is better than any revolver is personal preference, or perhaps a writer who's in bed with a manufacture. My experience is the shooter will work with what he/she prefer, or what he/she has. Be it a revolver or an autoloader. There is no question that an autoloader re-loads fster than a revolver in the hands of a novice. But anyone with a little practice can learn to quickly re-load a revolver. In the end it comes down to personal preference. And your right, a hit with a .32 is better than a miss with a .45.

2) I dont know where you get this information that someone touts an auto as more concielable than a small revolver, but I've never seen anyone on this forum say anything of the kind. Maybe there is some gun writer out there who may at one time have said this but It's certainly not the concensus. Concieling a firearm is is again more about personal preference, life style, local weather, available products, and choice of firearm. I'm sure there are many more variables... but those are the big ones... Based on my experience. Again the accuracy of the firearm is dependant on the individual shooter. IMO Even the least expensive firearm when it comes from the factory is capable of accuracy far beyond the ability of most shooters. As far as a snubby making a 50 foot shot at a yote stealing a baby goat? If one practice at that distance I submit they will be able to make that shot with snub revolver or automatic. I'd further say that (based on the conversation on the forum) Most people working in the field tend to carry full sized firearms. I know I carry full sized when afield.

3) Now to the meat of the conversation. When sharing my experiences and advice... I'm one who recomends used revolvers, and automatics. Being a used policeman I have extensive experience with used police revolvers. Despite your opinions used police/security revolvers are still great deals as far as price. When searching the used revolver market you will notice they are all from first quality manufacture's Colt, Smith&Wesson, and Ruger. I dont know how old you are but some may be even older than yourself. I currently own, and frequently shoot a S&W Victory revolver, and a S&W 1917. Both gun's being decades older than me. At gunshows you have to be aware of beaters. But I find them to be very rare, and usually as expensive as a better gun. I dont know a dealer (and I know a few) who will point anyone in any direction, but will accomodate the buyer, and maybe educate him/her. Most firearms dealers are caught between their love of guns, and their business sense. Perhaps a FFL Dealer refuse to handle the shipping for reasons you dont understand...Like a deal that makes them nervous. There are no brand new model 10's. except those already sitting on dealer shelves. There is something called a classic... That looks kind of like a model 10. You are paying above MSRP for used model 10's.The MSRP on my S&W HB model 10 4" was $110.00, $90.00 with the police discount. Currently, used M&P's are going for around $300. to $500. With police trade in's being on the low end. Jim March mentioned how a Ruger revolver wasnt subject to be shot out, and how he'd trust one from a range rental board. I feel the same way about S&W products. Other than holster wear Police guns tend to be well cared for as mandated by department standards. Despite anything you may have heard or read... Gun's arent fragile dainty things that break easily, or are subject to be shot too much. Guns are made to be shot.

4) I dont know where you get your informstion. Jim has given his opinion of Ruger customer service. I'll relate my S&W service experiences. First off I own ... welllll lets say I own quite a few Smith revolvers. I very very rarely have any kind of trouble with any of them... as I said I own a victory that times, and locks perfect. And a 1917 that works just as well. In fact I've only had to send a gun back to the factory once. It was an out of production Highway patrolman. 40 some odd years out of production. I sent it back for timing, and refinishing. I guess like you said it needed something the factory didnt have or could no longer produce. S&W didnt send me a letter with apologies, and my out of time gun and a bill for the re-finish. They sent me a BRAND NEW GUN... stamped with my origonal serial #. The cost of this customer service event was $0.00... How much better can customer service get? S&W, Ruger, and other manufactures have a reputation they must maintain... Colt revolvers are more complicated than the two other majors. They are also out of production for the most part. Colt revolvers were hand fitted witch made them more expensive. The factory craftsmen who did this work are probably all but retired and gone. This is why Colt has difficulties supporting their fine revolvers of the past. I'd bet they send them to a factory trained gunsmith for repair... Thats why they charge for service, and the turn around is a bit longer.


In the end you get what you pay for.
By the way... Newton? you dont teach tactical classes, or own a budding holster company do you?

Glenn Dee
 
If you look at this and other forums, and other firearm forums, you'll see a variety of opinions of a given subject.

The writers in gun magazines are no different. Their opinions are based on their experience, likes or dislikes.

Like forums, you'll find one that likes pistols, and another that likes revolvers.

What you have to do, is read as many as you can, find an "opinion" that meets your needs, likes and dislikes, and budget.

An example, if you look at the age of these writers, be it magazines or forums, you'll see the older guys grew up with revolvers, early semi pistols weren't as reliable as the revolvers. Then you have the younger groups that got into the game when modern pistols were reliable and much better then the early days.

Neither group is wrong. Based on what they grew up with.

It's no different when you talk about used guns. Joe bought a used handgun, it was broken, abused, and total junk. He's going to recommend staying away from these old guns. Then comes Bob, buys an old handgun that was cared for, works without a hiccup, and keeps going. Bob gonna tell you the used gun is the way to go.

In reality, guns seldom are shot to death. The may be abused, but if cared for will last forever.

Lets look at another example: Lets take the M1 Garand. You go to a pawn shop find an pretty over priced M1, take it home and find all kinds of problems. You are gonna say the M1 is nothing but over priced junk.

Your buddy buys his M1 from the CMP. The CMP had armors go over the gun, rebuilding it if necessary, making sure its safe and functional before its put up for sale.

So you and your buddy spend hours arguing about the M1. Writers are no different.

Is this bad, good, or what. I think its good, it would be boring if we all like the same thing, had the same opinions and such. There would be nothing to talk about, their wouldn't be these forums or the gun magazines.

But this also leads to confusion for new shooters. This may come as little comfort, but us old guys had our periods of confusion when we first got started, as did our fathers and our grandkids will be in the same boat.

I will tell you this, and you can take it to the bank. Whether any gun shoots or not has more to do with the individual shooter then the gun. Be it rifle, pistol, revolver or shotgun. There are people who can shoot a warn out piece of junk, and there are people who can't shoot a $3000 custom precision rifle. Whether a firearm is good or not is based on the effort a shooter puts into shooting that firearm.

I'll use your example of the stub nose pistol/revolver. John can't hit anything past 10 ft. Bob at 15 yards makes it difficult to count the bullet holes because of the ragged hole. It's not the gun, John never works at it, Bob shoots his snubby at 25/50 yards practicing shooting bullseye matches and such with his snubby.

So basically don't worry about what others say, in gun magazines, on forums. For ever writer who you disagree with, there is a writer that agrees with you.

We have our favorite writer, Guys who grew up in the military like Hatcher, guys who grew up with revolvers like Elmer Keith. So what.
 
Small semi autos are the latest and greatest, small revolvers have been around for ages.

Manufacturers of new small autos are paying for advertising space.
 
The standard 5 shot snub nose revolver contains twice the ammo the FBI statistics say is needed for the average gunfight in the U.S. It has enough penetration to insure its bullet reaches the vitals. Most are as accurate as the shooter. Its operation is simple and easy.

Its pretty hard to argue that it is a fine self defense firearm.

If your particular situation places you at a higher risk, such as being LE, working in a gang plagued area, or like myself working at a pawnshop, then maybe the increased capacity is needed. This however doesn't turn the revolver into a bad thing just makes the semis capacity a better thing.
 
First rule is have a gun, irrelevant whether its a revolver or a pistol, 9MM or 50 AE, first rule is have a gun. I'm a colt 1911A1 man through and through but my bedside gun is a .357 mag revolver loaded with 158 gr 39 spcl lead bullets. No groping for magazines or safety's, just point and shoot. Bedroom door is only 10' from my bed and a cannon isn't needed and if I have to get to my feet I grab the shotgun by the bedroom door. If boogerman is in the house shotgun trumps his handgun whatever it is. Action really does not make any difference when the bovine droppings start flying. Use what you got and be happy you have it.
 
"when ever someone asks about a decent affordable revolver, they are pointed at used smiths, colts, or rugers...."

That's pretty good advice. One can usually buy a used, excellently-crafted, older example rather than the new, more "economically" manufactured equivalent for way less money. For the same money, I can buy 2 good, used Colt/S&W police-type revolvers or one new Model 64.

The older ones are nicer. The standards were a bit higher back when.
 
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