http://www.msmagazine.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000262.html see comments by Polara. Munro, what was that about the inmates running the asylum?
Some people see NO difference between worth of a rapist and an inocent.
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
- Start date
I wonder if she would welcome third parties (police) saving her life by stopping an attack? What amuses me is that someone who feels unworthy of living is still alive through the efforts of people around her. Darwin would have had a chuckle about what constitutes "the fit" around here. BTW, she's in my town and I offered her a range trip...but I will evaluate the sanity level before issuing live ammunition (and will be sure to bring an obscure caliber just in case). I think the first range trip oight to be for familiarization only, no actual firing.
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
Good job, guys, but we really need ya to chime in here (on the same board):
http://www.msmagazine.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000224.html
It started off as an anti paradise...
http://www.msmagazine.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000224.html
It started off as an anti paradise...
Jeff Thomas
New member
I believe pro-RKBA folks have done a lot of good work over there. In many of their initial threads there were the usual hysterical comments, with no counter-balancing discussion. They've been taken a little aback by the flurry of pro-self defense commentary, but I see many of them finally beginning to think the issues through. That is a significant improvement. Most of them seem to be good, decent people, willing to have a logical discussion.
Logic can win this debate, if we only have enough time for reasonable discussion.
Most human beings are absolutely unwilling to sacrifice themselves or innocent others to the 'wolves' in our society. We're 'hard-wired' for survival. I sincerely doubt that most women would ultimately choose death for their children, or rape / death for themselves if they truly understand they can take control of their own defense if necessary.
Oleg, I have become a big fan of yours - you do a great job of debating. Very measured, very calm, and very mature. You can do your best work by visiting forums where the 'choir' is not present - I hope you'll continue this kind of 'pilgrimmage'. I want to meet you someday in Phoenix, my friend. We can drink a beer togther, ... and toast PETA.
Regards from AZ
Logic can win this debate, if we only have enough time for reasonable discussion.
Most human beings are absolutely unwilling to sacrifice themselves or innocent others to the 'wolves' in our society. We're 'hard-wired' for survival. I sincerely doubt that most women would ultimately choose death for their children, or rape / death for themselves if they truly understand they can take control of their own defense if necessary.
Oleg, I have become a big fan of yours - you do a great job of debating. Very measured, very calm, and very mature. You can do your best work by visiting forums where the 'choir' is not present - I hope you'll continue this kind of 'pilgrimmage'. I want to meet you someday in Phoenix, my friend. We can drink a beer togther, ... and toast PETA.
Regards from AZ
Having a girlfriend with their mindset help. I get lots of practice 
Notice the first "pro" and "neutral" threads that just appeared there, too! Just hope that the newcomers remain polite and do not overwhelm the regulars with posts consisting of four screenfulls of quoted material. That's what links are for
BTW, I think we are dealing with rational people (our darling Polara excepted, so it seems). Much more pleasant atmosphere than some other forums (Bowers' comes to mind).
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
Notice the first "pro" and "neutral" threads that just appeared there, too! Just hope that the newcomers remain polite and do not overwhelm the regulars with posts consisting of four screenfulls of quoted material. That's what links are for
BTW, I think we are dealing with rational people (our darling Polara excepted, so it seems). Much more pleasant atmosphere than some other forums (Bowers' comes to mind).
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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
I'm sorry, but the MS crowd brings up bile and I couldn't remain civil. They are loaded with self-righteous contradictions and are merely one more special interest group seeking special collective privileges/treatment/dispensation at the expense of others by force and or cohersion.
The goal was independence...its been achieved, die already.
When I went to grad school, I was approached to join the local chapter of "Women in Science"...I checked it out and it wasn't for me. Did they graciously accept my decline to join? Not on your life. I got through on my own merits, not by a collective political force.
Hell with the whining know it alls, Keepers of the Sacred Writ and self-proclaimed savioresses
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
The goal was independence...its been achieved, die already.
When I went to grad school, I was approached to join the local chapter of "Women in Science"...I checked it out and it wasn't for me. Did they graciously accept my decline to join? Not on your life. I got through on my own merits, not by a collective political force.
Hell with the whining know it alls, Keepers of the Sacred Writ and self-proclaimed savioresses
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Gopher a 45
New member
Is there a link to Jeff Snyder's "Nation of Cowards" we could post over there? Anyone know? I've had more luck with my single dog-eared copy of that thing than with anything else. It makes hard-core antis feel like hypocrites (assuming they even finish reading it), which they HATE (means discussion over). However, it seems to give a lot of the "I only want reasonable gun control" types something to think about.
DC,
Yeah! I refrained from replying since I couldn't remain civil (or brief). There are just so many holes in what passes for "logic" over there that refuting them point by point would be longer than writing another dissertation! They advocate force against others to get what they want yet they're too gutless to do it themselves; guess they'd rather do it by proxy. It makes me absolutely sick. I have more respect for out and out thugs. At least they aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty and they're a lot easier to deter!
Re: Polara. Back when I frequented talk.politics.guns on usenet (before the signal/noise ratio got out of control) there was a guy there (from England of course) who claimed that he would not defend his life or anyone's with lethal force under any circumstances. I think they may be the same person.
DC,
Yeah! I refrained from replying since I couldn't remain civil (or brief). There are just so many holes in what passes for "logic" over there that refuting them point by point would be longer than writing another dissertation!
They advocate force against others to get what they want yet they're too gutless to do it themselves; guess they'd rather do it by proxy. It makes me absolutely sick. I have more respect for out and out thugs. At least they aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty and they're a lot easier to deter!Re: Polara. Back when I frequented talk.politics.guns on usenet (before the signal/noise ratio got out of control) there was a guy there (from England of course) who claimed that he would not defend his life or anyone's with lethal force under any circumstances. I think they may be the same person.
Polara claims to be from Minneapolis. I personally do not think he/she/it fit *my* definition of sane...but so long as Polara doesn't attack me, mine, or my way of life, what do I care.
In fact, loons like this are very helpful as object lessons of the camel's nose for the moderates to see.
In fact, loons like this are very helpful as object lessons of the camel's nose for the moderates to see.
Munro Williams
New member
Polara's done puked out of the party, and I doubt that he/she/it will respond further.
If P truly sees no difference between the guilty and the innocent, then this is because (she?) is either:
1. so full of all the s--- she believes in that ideology has replaced her higher cognitive functions.
2. some punk kid playing around with dangerous ideas to impress people, trying to sound like one of the nutso college profs who infest academia.
3. insane.
There's no way you can reason with lunatics. They deny reality. That's what makes insanity insane.
One can argue with a reasonable person about anything and that person may change his or her mind because they can see the logic of the other person's argument.
There is no way to convince a psychotic that the cute anchorwoman on the morning news is NOT televising secret love messages to him coded as the morning traffic report. He's crazy.
It's like trying to teach the multiplication tables to your pet cat. No matter how good a teacher you are, the cat just can't get it.
People who have been taught that reality is arbitrary fit this bill. There's no organic brain disfunction, so they may eventually realize that everything that their teachers taught them is so much gibberish.
This is what I mean when I talk about sadists trying to drive everyone insane.
I have talked with people who seriously are unable to understand that the Holocaust really happened. It's a socially useful myth is about as close as they're able to get to an agreement about the fact that I've talked, face to face, with an extremely grumpy, miserably depressed old man who spoke with a German accent and had a number tattooed on his forearm.
And no, as distasteful as they find the Nazis, they're unable to find any reason to condemn them. Civil discourse is impossible, so I tend to leave quickly. We've got to remember that when we're dealing with people who essentially deny that existence exists we're dealing with a socially acceptable, learned form of psychosis.
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ALARM! ALARM! CIVILIZATION IS IN PERIL! THE BARBARIANS HAVE TAKEN THE GATES!
[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited March 17, 2000).]
If P truly sees no difference between the guilty and the innocent, then this is because (she?) is either:
1. so full of all the s--- she believes in that ideology has replaced her higher cognitive functions.
2. some punk kid playing around with dangerous ideas to impress people, trying to sound like one of the nutso college profs who infest academia.
3. insane.
There's no way you can reason with lunatics. They deny reality. That's what makes insanity insane.
One can argue with a reasonable person about anything and that person may change his or her mind because they can see the logic of the other person's argument.
There is no way to convince a psychotic that the cute anchorwoman on the morning news is NOT televising secret love messages to him coded as the morning traffic report. He's crazy.
It's like trying to teach the multiplication tables to your pet cat. No matter how good a teacher you are, the cat just can't get it.
People who have been taught that reality is arbitrary fit this bill. There's no organic brain disfunction, so they may eventually realize that everything that their teachers taught them is so much gibberish.
This is what I mean when I talk about sadists trying to drive everyone insane.
I have talked with people who seriously are unable to understand that the Holocaust really happened. It's a socially useful myth is about as close as they're able to get to an agreement about the fact that I've talked, face to face, with an extremely grumpy, miserably depressed old man who spoke with a German accent and had a number tattooed on his forearm.
And no, as distasteful as they find the Nazis, they're unable to find any reason to condemn them. Civil discourse is impossible, so I tend to leave quickly. We've got to remember that when we're dealing with people who essentially deny that existence exists we're dealing with a socially acceptable, learned form of psychosis.
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ALARM! ALARM! CIVILIZATION IS IN PERIL! THE BARBARIANS HAVE TAKEN THE GATES!
[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited March 17, 2000).]
Munro Williams
New member
Help yourself Greg, but you'd get a better analysis by checking out
http://www.zolatimes.com/writers/kocher.html
http://www.zolatimes.com/writers/kocher.html