Some old shells....

Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
At a recent foray to PGC for some trap, I was gifted with a mixed bag of old 12 gauge loads. And bag is the correct word, these are in a Ziplock.

Story goes, a man received these and others from his dad, who's headed for a senior community and sent his son all his hunting related stuff, including an A-5 and a pre 64 Model 70.

Son shoots rifle but is only likewarm at best about shotguns. He was using a Miroku Daly and these until advised the rules forbade shot larger than 7 1/2, and 3 dram loads.

Most of the bag consists of 50s style Remington Express Long Range loads,the old 1 1/4 oz shoulder buster. These were similar to my pheasant whackers of the time, differing only by being 7 1/2s instead of 6s. At the time, I believed them to be suitable for all that walked, swum or flew.

With them and my oldest 870, I took pheasants, squirrels,rabbits,doves, mallards,woodies,vermin, woodchucks, even a Canada or two. In 4s they were my duck load, and the 2s were good for Canadas in those last of the good years Eastern Shore expeditions.

And while these have been stored properly, I seriously doubt I'll ever shoot them off.

These are not museum pieces. But, every single aspect of these loads has been altered since then to improve performance.

Instead of brass,there's now steel case heads with less chance of catastrophic failure. While those were rare, so is getting struck by lightning, and I don't fish during thunderstorms.

The paper case,so subject to swelling when wet, is now supplanted by polywhatever. Waterproof, impact resistant,and cheap, it's also more reloadable.

Instead of felt and cork wads, there's the cup wads, again of polystuff. Younger shooters have NO idea how much better these pattern than the old ammo.

Instead of soft lead shot,there's now harder and rounder pellets.Higher antimony content translates into patterns we could not approach much less equal in those days.

And folks used to the clean burning powders of this era would think we were shooting coarse black musket stuff from the residue left in bbls of the days.

And while these shells have a folded crimp, these are topped off with a sticker on top that blows into confetti when fired. Sometimes they constituted a fire hazard during dry summers.

Compare a 52 Ford or Chevy to the newest ones. That's the difference between our ammo and that of yesteryear...
 
Started out to be a good day.
Now, after reading that, old has struck.:D

But, as usual, Dave is right.
Gun and ammo designs are, for the most part, way ahead of "the good ol days".

A shame the fit and finish have generally declined.

Tall cotton.....late model gun, modern ammo; and old trigger.

Relativity.....in 1940 a really fine shotgin cost bout the same as a fine automobile.
Now...same thing.

Sam
 
My dad had several boxes of WWI vintage paper shells that he was issued during the Detroit riots in '67. I fired them off in the early 70s, Remington paper hulled OO Buck. Shoulderbusters, especially in my Browning Automatic 5. Ouch!

They were hell on old appliances in the back 40, though...
 
Thanks, guys. And Sam, I'm sorry, didn't intend to ruin anyone's day.

I could shoot these up, but the big question is for what?...

Maybe I'll just salvage the lead.

This is part of the old days I'm not missing. I much prefer more modern stuff.
 
Good post Dave. I wish I could have hunted back in the days of lead on waterfowl, but I have only ever used steel. I would like to witness the difference first hand, and I can tell you for a fact my 3.5" autoshucking loudenboomer would not be in play with lead!! I do know the smell of the paper hull 3 3/4 dram x 1 1/4 oz "duckloads" is one of the best ever, I was given a few to experience the "old days" on clays.

Could not agree more on the performance of the shotshells we have now. I can make a load that does anything I want with a little work. I have been playing with a 1 1/4 oz load of #5s that is leaving the muzzle at 1440 fps, if that is not enough I am getting GREAT patterns out of it and published pressures are very near handicap trap loads!!! I have not gotten one of these loads on a pheasant yet as the 20 ga usually goes (shooting a blistering 1200 fps with 1 oz of 5s LOL) but maybe tomorrow. Why 1440 with 1.25 oz of 5's? Because I can. Load development and testing is a lot of fun for me, and the results so far have pheasants at a serious disadvantage on really windy days. They do whomp on both ends, but fun anyway.
 
Thanks, H. The good old days as far as ammo's concerned are right now.

Back in the day, we used the heavy stuff on the More Is Better Principle.We all shot long bbled repeaters, tightly choked. And we went with the 1 1/4 oz whackers because we could.

For a loose comparison to steel....

First goose taken was with a 16 gauge, maybe another 40 with that same old single barrel H&R.

The load was probably a 1 1/8 oz of 3s. This killed well if they were inside the decoys and I did my part.

Next I used an 870, with the 1 1/4 oz Rem Long Range Express load of 2s for geese, 4s for ducks.
Even tho I'm a much better shotgunner these days, my kill ratio went down with steel, and I've had to hit them again so many times I regard it as a given.

If work allows, I may do a late season snow goose
hunt. I'm going to try the Hevi-shot. I'lll have some BBB steel along too, and I'll try to compare them on an apples to apples basis.
 
Dave, thanks for the info. I would be curious to hear how your hevi-shot trial goes. From what I hear it will go really well. I too am going to spring for some to try for geese in the fields.

I shoot 3.5" high velocity steel exclusively. Federal Premium or Winchester Supreme. There IS a difference. I went 3.5" so I could use large shot, #2 and BB on ducks and BBB or T's for geese. 3.5" gives me the pellet count to have a workable pattern at the ranges the shot size allows. The high velocity shells simply kill better, no doubt about it in my mind what so ever. #2 hammers large mallards out to about 50 yards, and BB to nearly 60 if you can hold the pattern together. BBB on geese (only have canadas here, and most of them are giants) works well out to 55 yards or so. I am still working on a pattern good enough to use the T shot past 50, but so far it has eluded me. 50 and inside the T shot is a real killer.

With a 3" gun I was not able to get patterns that were sufficient past about 40 yards with shot sizes capable of ranges beyond that, and I was 15 chokes and many boxes of shells into it when I gave up. I wanted a 10 gauge, but then it would be strictly a waterfowl gun and they started at $300+ more than a 3.5" 12 gauge. I have a couple shotguns that cost me a lot of money and are only suitable for one or maybe a couple things, not interested in any more.

Some of the loads I have worked up for crows and pheasants make me dream of lead on waterfowl. I too am sick of having to hit a duck or a goose two or three times to bring it down.
 
You're quite welcome, H.

In the halcyon days of yore, we'd often jump shoot ducks by drifting an old Grumman canoe downsome of the many branches of the Patuxent. One guy in the bow had a shotgun ready, the stern man paddled and steered. A few miles drift would produce opps at woodies, mallards, squirrels etc. These were almost always taken with 1 1/4 oz of 6s, our standard load for stuff larger than dove and smaller than geese.

I've quit using steel past 40 yards, and love 30 yard shots. Hard to get geese in that close, but doable sometimes.

If I do get in a Snow goose trip, I'll report here...
 
Dave, if you decide on that goose trip, I have to suggest that you try 3" Federal Tungsten, #2 shot.

I have been killing geese down on the Katy Prarie in Texas for 5 years with this stuff, and it is absolutely amazing. 60 - 70 yard killing shots are not uncommon.

Good luck,

Bud
 
Thnaks, Bud, I'll keep it in mind. I may try out a few different things, depending on opportunity and finances.
 
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