For those of you who think that Hillary will not win the Democratic ticket in 2008---Kerry is a dead horse, Hillary is THE PROBLEM that lies ahead:
http://www.pollingreport.com/2008.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/2008.htm
Some of you couldn't be more wrong
- Thread starter MoW
- Start date
People are making too much of a deal out of this.
Until people actually get up and say they are running, it is really pointless to speculate.
In another year, there may well be someone completely out of the spotlight that has it all but wrapped up.
As for Hillary, I would think the Dems would actually run someone with more than a Northeast appeal this time. Unless their plan all along has to been to continue to lose the elections to the repubs, getting people mad enough that they would vote for whoever the Dems gave them
Until people actually get up and say they are running, it is really pointless to speculate.
In another year, there may well be someone completely out of the spotlight that has it all but wrapped up.
As for Hillary, I would think the Dems would actually run someone with more than a Northeast appeal this time. Unless their plan all along has to been to continue to lose the elections to the repubs, getting people mad enough that they would vote for whoever the Dems gave them
Which reminds me since I havent been keeping up with politics a great amount. Did Kerry ever release his medical papers that everyone was complaining about? I think they were a few months ago. Id like to check em out.
I ALSO BELIEVE though that numbers right now are nothing. Wait for the cauccuses.
Then after that id say that the debates play the biggest part in poll #'s. I know this past election numbers jogged quite a bit.
I ALSO BELIEVE though that numbers right now are nothing. Wait for the cauccuses.
Then after that id say that the debates play the biggest part in poll #'s. I know this past election numbers jogged quite a bit.
cortez kid
New member
If you remember how "W" got into office, he was the main topic of discussion. He did'nt even run against the other republicans in the race. He just smiled and stood back while the ferver took him to the primaries. All this talk about Hillary will do the same thing. She'll stand back and let the political machine push her into the primaries for her coronation. Most likely could take her all the way into the White House. The lower Bush gets in the eyes of the nation, the higher Hillary will get. Notice you don't hear much negative talk from her. Everyone else is doing that for her. She'll step in as the "savior" of the nation. Stranger things have happened.
kid
kid
stephen426
New member
Jihad said:
I'm not sure if the U.S. is really ready for a woman president, MUCH LESS an African American Woman President! You will have all of those people harboring their hidden racism voting for Hillary for sure! Besides, Republicans are supposed to be a Conservative group!
Cortez Kid said:
I think Cortez has got a good point here. Bush's popularity keeps getting lower and lower. The friggin war in Iraq to liberate a bunch of ungrateful savages is seriously hurting him, but he can't pull out and make the U.S. lose face. This is the Vietnam of our era.
Think about what has happened to our country since 9/11. How much extra money is being spent on security? I forget how much it costs to go from yellow to orange alert status but I remember that it is astronomical. If the terror alerts are raised and nothing happens, we are called alarmists. If we don't raise the alert and something happens, we are called careless and incompetent. The mere fact that we have rebuilt after having our financial heart crushed (look what happened to the stock markets afterwards) is a testimony to the strength of the American Government and the American People.
Sometimes it even seems that mother nature is against Bush. These storms have pushed the limits of the government ability to respond and cost the country billions upon billions of dollars. The economy is going to slow down for sure and gas prices are going to stay high for a while. Insurance premiums will spike, making it unaffordable or seriously hurt many families financially. Some insurance companies will probably go chapter 11 and thousands if not tens of thousands will lose their jobs. I'm sure our defecit is going to sky rocket next year and everyone will blame Bush for that.
Even worse is if the Avian Bird Flu Pandemic really hits. This will be the final nail in Bush's coffin since everyone will blame him for not doing something sooner. I am afraid of what will happen if it does hit. The world will be thrown into chaos and only the strongest countries will be able to emerge from the ashes. The only advantage the U.S. has is our relatively low population density. The greatest challenge will be our high mobility and our being accustomed to a great degree of freedom.
All in all, it is a horrible time to be president. I wouldn't do it for a million dollars. I think all the critics should just SHUT the F UP and do something to help. If they are not going to be part of the solution, don't be part of the problem.
One other thing is I foresee a serious change in our future. I think the U.S. needs to take a step closer towards Western Europe's socialist form of government. Our workers have no protection and practically no rights compared to theirs. The government pays for all medical expenses in Europe. If a worker gets sick in U.S. and needs an operation, it will most likely bankrupt him. He will not get paid since he is not working. I'm willing to bet that over 95% of families without insurance would go into financial ruin if someone in the family needed a major operation. With the insurance rates rising astronomically, many companies are cutting back benefits and fewer and fewer Americans can afford to buy it themselves. Is this how it should be in the land of opportunity? At least Bush has taken a step in the right direction by capping the amount of punitive damages for medical malpractice. More and more doctors are opting to go without insurance because they can't afford it. Frivelous suits are wasting billions of dollars and people are treating our court system as a lottery. Since many lawyers take cases on a contingency basis, there is no risk for suing a doctor or business. Should someone really become an instant millionaire because the doctor couldn't cure them? Who put the illness there? Sue God! I'm not saying doctors and manufacturers don't need to be responsible. I'm just saying that these judgements have to be reasonable.
I think I'm done ranting for now. Lets hope that Hilary doesn't win in 2008 and lets hope that we all survive to that point. Start buying your PVC and dessicants to bury your weapons just in case though!
Stephen, I am a little taken aback...
You are obviously a strong 2A supporter but the danger of Socialism is directly related to the loss of 2A rights. The whole goal of socialism is to create government dependency in the people while the 2A was enacted specifically to allow the peopel to stay independent.
The "social utopia" that is Europe is a myth. I work for a Swiss comapany and deal with people in Switzerland, France and Germany. Of the three systems the Swiss one is the strongest but even they are in trouble due to their socialist leanings. Only by stringently guarding Swiss citizenship and all its priveldges and taking advantage of alien labor are they staying afoat. Their "industries" are very high margin / value added ones where the profits are able to keep their society afloat. This only works because the society is small though, if it were to grow dramatically there would not be enough money in the pot for all the goodies they hand out.
That is exactly the problem in France and Germany. People there have long ago taken the attitude that the government will care for everything. The result is laziness and no work incentive. I see it first hand all the time, and it is invading Switzerland as well. The old world Euro nations are unable to compete when actual service is required beyond what they see as important. As a result of this savy companies in Asia and Eastern Europe are easting their lunches. The old world Euros are driving themselves to financial ruin due to their programs. What is worse is no one has the political will to address the problem and the populations are unconcerned with anything more than the benifits THEY will get now.
Could our healthcare system work better? Of course it could. But you wouldn't trade a house with a leaky roof for one with a flooded basement now, would you? Tossing our system for one that has a whole slew of worse problems is not the path to follow. Remember, as soon as you turn healthcare into a national entitlement program, as our fearless leader has done with medication, you can never go back until the system absolutely crashes. There is no experimenting with socialized medicine in the US on a nation scale with out irreversible implementation of it.
What is more, going back to my original argument, the answer has never been to give MORE POWER too the government. Giving the government total control over healthcare would only enslave the entire population to that government for every ailment. If you tried to run a socialist system next to a private system what do you think would happen? Everyone would go to work at the private system with higher wages. The only way to avert that would be to make the social system mandatory! You have now given up all say in your medical decisions.
You are obviously a strong 2A supporter but the danger of Socialism is directly related to the loss of 2A rights. The whole goal of socialism is to create government dependency in the people while the 2A was enacted specifically to allow the peopel to stay independent.
The "social utopia" that is Europe is a myth. I work for a Swiss comapany and deal with people in Switzerland, France and Germany. Of the three systems the Swiss one is the strongest but even they are in trouble due to their socialist leanings. Only by stringently guarding Swiss citizenship and all its priveldges and taking advantage of alien labor are they staying afoat. Their "industries" are very high margin / value added ones where the profits are able to keep their society afloat. This only works because the society is small though, if it were to grow dramatically there would not be enough money in the pot for all the goodies they hand out.
That is exactly the problem in France and Germany. People there have long ago taken the attitude that the government will care for everything. The result is laziness and no work incentive. I see it first hand all the time, and it is invading Switzerland as well. The old world Euro nations are unable to compete when actual service is required beyond what they see as important. As a result of this savy companies in Asia and Eastern Europe are easting their lunches. The old world Euros are driving themselves to financial ruin due to their programs. What is worse is no one has the political will to address the problem and the populations are unconcerned with anything more than the benifits THEY will get now.
Could our healthcare system work better? Of course it could. But you wouldn't trade a house with a leaky roof for one with a flooded basement now, would you? Tossing our system for one that has a whole slew of worse problems is not the path to follow. Remember, as soon as you turn healthcare into a national entitlement program, as our fearless leader has done with medication, you can never go back until the system absolutely crashes. There is no experimenting with socialized medicine in the US on a nation scale with out irreversible implementation of it.
What is more, going back to my original argument, the answer has never been to give MORE POWER too the government. Giving the government total control over healthcare would only enslave the entire population to that government for every ailment. If you tried to run a socialist system next to a private system what do you think would happen? Everyone would go to work at the private system with higher wages. The only way to avert that would be to make the social system mandatory! You have now given up all say in your medical decisions.
It's worth repeating
THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN LIBERALS VS. CONSERVATIVES – DEMOCRATS VS. REPUBLICANS
Black vs. White? Up vs. Down? Wrong vs. Right? Evil vs. Good? NO! Of course not! Though sometimes the two camps may seem that far apart, in many ways they are closer together than either side wishes to acknowledge. The public rhetorical displays of opposition, mud-slinging, righteousness and disgust with one another are meant to define differences, and to close the gates to each camp so that believers in either cause won’t desert.
The excitable Daschle and the more restrained but cunning Gephardt, currently wield the sword of Democrats, while the resolute Orin Hatch, Phil Graham and Trent Lott spar equally well for the GOP side. The public hears the vehemence and strident words intended for it, while in private these men know the truth – that there is more gray than Black or White; more middle ground than Up or Down; more compromise than Right or Wrong; and more fair than Good or Evil.
There are, however, fundamental differences, and people who “join” either side should be intellectually honest enough to know and accept those differences. Let’s talk about some of the major differences – note that we will use the terms Liberal and Democrat interchangeably, just as we will Republican and Conservative. These are our "short-form" views of the two major political parties:
· Military issues – Democrats value safety and freedom as much as the next guy, but they tend to not want to invest in it as much as Republicans do. They wish to put their tax revenues into domestic programs. The Dems also love to pit military spending against domestic spending. In some ways that's a good thing, but only when done honestly and genuinely. Liberals want to wait until the threat is undeniable, while Conservatives believe more in the power of deterrence by strength. Republicans also tend to believe that the Federal Government’s primary role is to protect its citizens, while Democrats feel it is their duty to provide for citizens.
· Moral issues – Liberals, because of their individual rights stance, tend to fight what they perceive as invasive rulings regarding morality, while Conservatives place more value on societal morality, family values and traditional values than on individual rights. Again, Dems know that special interest groups and the selfish bone in many Americans respond positively to ideas that serve them, regardless of the effects on society as a whole.
· Economic issues – Democrats think nothing of spending more and more money of domestic issues – they see themselves as “providers” of the common good. Republicans generally oppose more programs, large government and the concept of being “providers.” See the joke, below. Its cute, and stresses this philosophic difference between the two sides. Republicans believe in the adage, "Give a man a fish, and he has but one meal; teach him to fish, and he will eat forever." Dems want to hand-feed people, making them slaves to the government's dole. Dems love to pit one American against the other on issues of taxes, social security, health issues, diversity and crime. Democrats have played the class warfare card once too often, and we believe that most Americans are wising up to that divisive game.
· Civil Rights (Race, Sex, Religion, etc.) issues – Democrats tend to represent individual rights over traditional rights. They also claim to be the voice and defender of the common man. It is in that role that they have driven a mighty wedge between the people and Republicans through a continuous barrage of "class warfare." The Democrats have courted the black and Hispanic vote, blue collar vote and labor union vote, pitting them against America's vital business and industry community. Republicans have only recently begun to take them head-on, attempting to dismantle the Democrat's house of cards. It's a hard sale, as many people respond to the Democrat message, thinking that it will "pull" them out of their troubles. It never has, and we doubt that it ever will.
· Crime & Courts issues – Hand-in-hand with the ACLU, liberals tend to side with the individual being "prosecuted." They honestly wish to guard the accused's rights, and that's a good thing, when done with common sense. Republicans tend to look to the victim's rights, and to the good of the whole (society) over that of the individual. Liberals want to make everything right through the courts, using liberal federal judges to accomplish their agenda. We laud the Democrats for some of the social reforms they have garnered, but we also condemn them for the many harms they have done to society as a whole.
· Foreign Aid issues – Let’s begin by accepting reality – every administration has doled out money to foreign nations in reckless, self-serving, poorly controlled and questionable ways. What adds to the problem is that foreign regimes evolve, some for the worse, and times change. What made sense in 1995 may make no sense in 1996. Heads of State that served our needs one decade may evolve into nasty problems for us down the road, as with Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, etc. Our alliances and our foreign aid are tied to what serves us best at the time. Democrats know that, as do Republicans, though both parties ignore that truth when they think they can malign the other party successfully. The United States of America defeated world communism and fascism, not always with the cleanest of hands, but the end did justify the means. The Cold War is over, thanks largely to President Ronald Reagan and his "bankrupt the Soviets" policies.
· Taxation issues – Conservatives believe that tax dollars are our individual dollars, not theirs, while Democrats feel that tax dollars are everyone’s, and should be used, as needed, to provide for everyone. “Take from the rich and give to the poor,” is often applied to them in unflattering ways. The Democrats are willing to steal from wealthier Americans, not because they believe it to be fair, but because they come across as Robin Hoods, and further their class warfare campaign. They also know that they are alienating a smaller percentage of Americans (higher wage earners), while satisfying the self serving instincts and natural jealousies of the larger lower income group.
· Liberty and Rights issues – Democrats tend to support individual rights regardless of their impact on society’s rights. Conservatives tend to vote in favor of protecting the majority interests over individual interests, especially when the individual interest seems petty, biased, an assault of basic values, or a threat to American values. It often seems that Liberals support intellectual arguments, while Conservatives apply more common sense. Burning of the American flag was supported by Liberals as a free speech issue, but opposed vehemently by Conservatives on a common sense, traditional and patriotic basis.
A LITTLE HUMOR FROM THE RIGHT:
A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they
came to a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his
business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then
took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.
The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another
homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless
person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached
into the Republican's pocket and got out twenty dollars. He kept $15
for administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.
Now you understand the difference between Republicans and Democrats
As of 01/26/03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN LIBERALS VS. CONSERVATIVES – DEMOCRATS VS. REPUBLICANS
Black vs. White? Up vs. Down? Wrong vs. Right? Evil vs. Good? NO! Of course not! Though sometimes the two camps may seem that far apart, in many ways they are closer together than either side wishes to acknowledge. The public rhetorical displays of opposition, mud-slinging, righteousness and disgust with one another are meant to define differences, and to close the gates to each camp so that believers in either cause won’t desert.
The excitable Daschle and the more restrained but cunning Gephardt, currently wield the sword of Democrats, while the resolute Orin Hatch, Phil Graham and Trent Lott spar equally well for the GOP side. The public hears the vehemence and strident words intended for it, while in private these men know the truth – that there is more gray than Black or White; more middle ground than Up or Down; more compromise than Right or Wrong; and more fair than Good or Evil.
There are, however, fundamental differences, and people who “join” either side should be intellectually honest enough to know and accept those differences. Let’s talk about some of the major differences – note that we will use the terms Liberal and Democrat interchangeably, just as we will Republican and Conservative. These are our "short-form" views of the two major political parties:
· Military issues – Democrats value safety and freedom as much as the next guy, but they tend to not want to invest in it as much as Republicans do. They wish to put their tax revenues into domestic programs. The Dems also love to pit military spending against domestic spending. In some ways that's a good thing, but only when done honestly and genuinely. Liberals want to wait until the threat is undeniable, while Conservatives believe more in the power of deterrence by strength. Republicans also tend to believe that the Federal Government’s primary role is to protect its citizens, while Democrats feel it is their duty to provide for citizens.
· Moral issues – Liberals, because of their individual rights stance, tend to fight what they perceive as invasive rulings regarding morality, while Conservatives place more value on societal morality, family values and traditional values than on individual rights. Again, Dems know that special interest groups and the selfish bone in many Americans respond positively to ideas that serve them, regardless of the effects on society as a whole.
· Economic issues – Democrats think nothing of spending more and more money of domestic issues – they see themselves as “providers” of the common good. Republicans generally oppose more programs, large government and the concept of being “providers.” See the joke, below. Its cute, and stresses this philosophic difference between the two sides. Republicans believe in the adage, "Give a man a fish, and he has but one meal; teach him to fish, and he will eat forever." Dems want to hand-feed people, making them slaves to the government's dole. Dems love to pit one American against the other on issues of taxes, social security, health issues, diversity and crime. Democrats have played the class warfare card once too often, and we believe that most Americans are wising up to that divisive game.
· Civil Rights (Race, Sex, Religion, etc.) issues – Democrats tend to represent individual rights over traditional rights. They also claim to be the voice and defender of the common man. It is in that role that they have driven a mighty wedge between the people and Republicans through a continuous barrage of "class warfare." The Democrats have courted the black and Hispanic vote, blue collar vote and labor union vote, pitting them against America's vital business and industry community. Republicans have only recently begun to take them head-on, attempting to dismantle the Democrat's house of cards. It's a hard sale, as many people respond to the Democrat message, thinking that it will "pull" them out of their troubles. It never has, and we doubt that it ever will.
· Crime & Courts issues – Hand-in-hand with the ACLU, liberals tend to side with the individual being "prosecuted." They honestly wish to guard the accused's rights, and that's a good thing, when done with common sense. Republicans tend to look to the victim's rights, and to the good of the whole (society) over that of the individual. Liberals want to make everything right through the courts, using liberal federal judges to accomplish their agenda. We laud the Democrats for some of the social reforms they have garnered, but we also condemn them for the many harms they have done to society as a whole.
· Foreign Aid issues – Let’s begin by accepting reality – every administration has doled out money to foreign nations in reckless, self-serving, poorly controlled and questionable ways. What adds to the problem is that foreign regimes evolve, some for the worse, and times change. What made sense in 1995 may make no sense in 1996. Heads of State that served our needs one decade may evolve into nasty problems for us down the road, as with Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, etc. Our alliances and our foreign aid are tied to what serves us best at the time. Democrats know that, as do Republicans, though both parties ignore that truth when they think they can malign the other party successfully. The United States of America defeated world communism and fascism, not always with the cleanest of hands, but the end did justify the means. The Cold War is over, thanks largely to President Ronald Reagan and his "bankrupt the Soviets" policies.
· Taxation issues – Conservatives believe that tax dollars are our individual dollars, not theirs, while Democrats feel that tax dollars are everyone’s, and should be used, as needed, to provide for everyone. “Take from the rich and give to the poor,” is often applied to them in unflattering ways. The Democrats are willing to steal from wealthier Americans, not because they believe it to be fair, but because they come across as Robin Hoods, and further their class warfare campaign. They also know that they are alienating a smaller percentage of Americans (higher wage earners), while satisfying the self serving instincts and natural jealousies of the larger lower income group.
· Liberty and Rights issues – Democrats tend to support individual rights regardless of their impact on society’s rights. Conservatives tend to vote in favor of protecting the majority interests over individual interests, especially when the individual interest seems petty, biased, an assault of basic values, or a threat to American values. It often seems that Liberals support intellectual arguments, while Conservatives apply more common sense. Burning of the American flag was supported by Liberals as a free speech issue, but opposed vehemently by Conservatives on a common sense, traditional and patriotic basis.
A LITTLE HUMOR FROM THE RIGHT:
A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they
came to a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his
business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then
took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.
The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another
homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless
person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached
into the Republican's pocket and got out twenty dollars. He kept $15
for administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.
Now you understand the difference between Republicans and Democrats
As of 01/26/03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------