Some observations on my Pietta 1851 Navies.

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Bigdog57

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Shot my two steel framed .44cal 1851s a couple days ago, and the new .36 cal 1851 Sheriff's Model.
The two .44 shot well, though I do get a few primers fired without the powder firing. A second cap fired okay. One will use #10 caps okay, the other won't and wants #11s. Both guns are identical except one has brass trigger guard/grip frame, the other is nickeled. Both shoot to same POI, some 6" high at 15 yards. Grouping is fair, once I got used to them.
The .36 has an issue. It too will take #10 caps, and I used Pietta's suggested 13 grains of powder. I am using Triple Seven so I actually expected a bit more 'oomph'.....
It was anemically underpowered, and had a noticeable delay between the cap popping and the powder igniting. Sounded like a flintlock! No recoil and it felt very light. I don't want to overload, as this nickeled frame is likely brass(?).
Could I not be seating the ball all the way down? Should I use the longer wads between powder and ball? The ball was seated pretty far down.
Is the 13 grains too light a load for a .36?
I considered going to 15 grains, but figured I'd check here first.
Been shooting .44s for decades, but this is my first .36 caliber revolver.
 
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Triple Seven is compression sensitive. Overly compress it and you will get delayed ignition or a failure to fire. Practice safe gun handling when this happens and keep gun pointed down-range for a period of time before examining the revolver.
 
Another factor on poor ignition (or I should say failure of cap to fire) is the nipple itself. I have owned many C & B revolvers over the years - different models and different brands going back 50 some years. Lots of time, the "stock nipples" are not the best in terms of making caps go off. I'm not saying you have to run right out and buy new nipple sets for your revolvers - but just keep that in mind. There are a number of good "replacement" nipples on the market now that greatly improve things.

Smokin'Joe has good advice in terms of the Triple Seven. I've never used anything but true BP but have known others who have used the triple seven and had problems due to over compression.

You'll get it figured out as you go along and it sounds like you're having fun which is what it's all about!

And by the way . . . on a properly tuned flintlock, you won't notice a "delay". :)
 
And by the way . . . on a properly tuned flintlock, you won't notice a "delay".

I always noticed it when Dan'l Boone (Fess Parker) fired his. I used to think that delay was inherent in the Rock Strikers..... I do know different now.

My little Sheriff's Model .36 has a rather short loading lever, so I don't think I am over compressing, but will try going easier on it next time. The .44s never gave me this problem.
Just something about the 1851 Navy - I currently have four in .44 cal., two brass framed and the two new steel-framed. My first one I got in 1976 at (gasp!) a K-mart! It's also a Pietta, but a very different manufacturing than today - smaller and lighter. Parts have NO interchangeability with today's Piettas. Grip shape is noticeably different too.

I don't have a problem with caps not firing. It's the powder not igniting that vexes me. The difference in two identical 1851's not using the same cap size is irritating too. Might try ordering two sets of quality aftermarket nipples and see if it improves.
 
I once dealt with a brass frame .44 Pietta Navy that shot wonderfully for about 100 shots... after that I kept getting unreliable cap ignition. I think I stretched the frame on the gun, and I was using full 30 grain loads. Keep that in mind!

There never, ever was such a thing as a .44 "Navy", and as a matter of fact Colt never produced a C&B revolver with a brass frame, but they are economical and fun to shoot. Just don't over do it!
 
I had some "fake" Black powder only once. If that stuff you are using in the .44s is the same I would also put the nipples on the suspect list, you should be able to interchange them with ones that light the powder every time from your .44.
Can only 13 grs. be loaded in a .36 (I consider 20 grs. FFFg minim in my Navies) with out a lot of filler?
 
"Can only 13 grs. be loaded in a .36 (I consider 20 grs. FFFg minim in my Navies) with out a lot of filler? "

That is the max that Pietta says to use on their printed and online manuals. I thought it sounded aweful light, and it IS! But I couldn't find any info on a safe stronger load, keeping in mind this gun is a brass frame.
For my .44s (and Pietta does call them "1851 Navy" even though it isn't historically correct) I use 27 grains. It's a decent load, even for the brass frames.
On loading the .36, the ball is far down the chamber. They supplied a package of both standard lubed wads and some lubed longer wads. I am wondering if I should put the longer wad between powder and ball? That would set the ball higher.
 
I have never used wads, but I use Cream of Wheat filler between the powder and ball so that the seated ball ends up as close to flush with the mouth of the cylinder as possible.

I ran a series of tests (which I have posted here previously) of load-workups with the ball seated deeply in the chamber without filler, vs. the same load with filler.

In no case did the no-filler tests produce better groups than with filler.

So I believe there is merit to loading such that the ball is as close to the rifling as possible by using some kind of filler.

Steve
 
I have a Brasser .44 "Navy" aseveral .36 caliber models and my opnion is to follow rule #1
Rule#1 Shoot for fun! Not to impress anyone with the big Boom. heavy Impacts or long range shots. Shoot because you find it FUN!
The super light factory recommended loads are Layer generated I'm sure but they're not all that far from my own different charges
. I shoot 18 gr Pyrodex charges when I am low on propellant, teaching a beginner, or just playing around. I follow up with a scoop of Cream of Wheat to bring the ball forward and top it all of with a treated wad to decrease chainfire possibilitys.
My "Normal load is 22 gr pf Pyrodex, a small scooper of COW and topped with a treated wad.
I don't like Crisco as it mostly melts off all cylinders the first shot. it's a mess (makes the gun slippery) and I mainly use Pyrodex because real BP is raare in these parts of Central Calif. It also shoots very clean and gives good consistancy.
I tried some 25 gr chsrges in the steel revolvers but found that I gained nothing except some noise, and it wasted powder.
I use enough COW to get the Ball within 1/16 of the forcing cone. No use making it do large jumps to get sized down!
I have had "Sages" tell me to load her up, full! You can't get enough powder in there to hurt em!
OK do it on YOUR guns NOT mine!
With my 22 gr loads and #11 Pinched Remington caps , I get good accuracy, solid combustion and good penetration. Works for me.
Try it and see.
ZVP
 
"With my 22 gr loads and #11 Pinched Remington caps , I get good accuracy, solid combustion and good penetration. Works for me."

Seems a might stout for any .36....... :confused:
 
In no case did the no-filler tests produce better groups than with filler.
Click to expand...

I don't use fillers just wads.

25 grains with round ball at 25 yards +/- one hand hold unsupported.

 
Looking good HAWG 25 grs. FFFg and a wad brings my cylinder right up there, but my old eyes don't shoot as good!
 
Bigdog57 said:
And by the way . . . on a properly tuned flintlock, you won't notice a "delay".

I always noticed it when Dan'l Boone (Fess Parker) fired his. I used to think that delay was inherent in the Rock Strikers..... I do know different now.
Click to expand...

Very true. Watched Fess Parker in Disney's Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone as a kid and thought flinters had a delay. My Kentucky Long Rifle with a Chambers lock and English flint does not go "swish boom," it just goes "BOOM!"
 
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