Some Iowa Sheriffs Resisting Shall Issue

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Yellowfin

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http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go....6E7F0ED16A5DFB
Sheriffs don't want to give up control of concealed gun permits
Thursday, February 14, 2008, 9:43 AM
By Darwin Danielson

There was an outcry at the statehouse Wednesday from county sheriffs objecting to a bill they say would make it harder for them to deny permits to carry concealed weapons.

The bill changes Iowa law to say the sheriff shall issue a permit except for a limited list of reasons, including felony convictions and drug addiction. If a permit's denied a written explanation would be required.

Representative Clel Baudler, a Republican from Greenfield, says there needs to be more consistency statewide in issuing the permits. Dubuque county Sheriff Kenneth Runde said that won't work. He said if he knows someone in his community has assaulted his wife but never been convicted, he wants to be able to deny a permit.

Runde says:"And we're going to give people like that permits to carry? That's not gonna happen, and I won't give 'em to those people. Just because they didn't get convicted 'cause their wives wouldn't testify, doesn't give them a right to carry a gun that they may end up using in a domestic violence situation."

Dewey Hildebrandt is sheriff of Bremer County. Hildebrandt says there are some cases where people might not have been found by the courts to be mentally unstable or unfit, there are situations where the sheriffs know the individuals personally and they are not the type they would want to see carrying weapons.

Story County Sheriff Paul Fitzgerald said explaining why a permit is denied could interfere with criminal investigations. "Taking the discretion away from sheriffs who have the intimate knowledge is going to be a disservice to the people in those communities," Fitzgerald says. Fitzgerald says the responsibility has got to fall back into the the sheriff and the sheriff has to stand up on why he did not give the person a permit.

Representative Baudler, a retired state trooper, says sheriffs are protecting their turf. He cited an example of permits unfairly denied for no apparent reason, including a prison guard who was not allowed to carry a concealed weapon for private protection outside the prison.

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All of our Iowa friends, take notice of this and push harder! Get your state to Shall Issue!
 
power corrupts. we shouldnt have the law we do in this state pretty unconstitutional but people could careless about state constitution let alone US constition.

The bill gives sheriffs immunity from issuance though is some wiggle room and a process for challenging denial though unlikely someone with problems will go extra steps to get one issued.
 
same stuff in Michigan

We went though the same stuff here in Michigan. A grass roots organization was formed and participated in getting the shall issue law passed and helped craft the wording so the state was not clobbered by the legislators. One of the reason the shall issue was pushed was power grabbing sherrifs and other public servents who were there for there own interest and not the states. Hang in there Iowa...get active get vocal and be sure to have many many people attend meetings to show support for the shall issue bill.
 
Some of these Sheriffs have assumed the role of Nanny, forgot their job is to enforce the law and perform the duties of the office....anything more is beyond their pay grade.

Most of these Sheriffs are Democrats and come from heavy Democrat controlled counties (Story & Johnson Counties). The Sheriff will not be looked on favorably within the party if they are found to issue a high number of permits....personal protection and firearm ownership goes against the party platform. If that Sheriff wants campaign money for their next election and support of the party, keep the permits to a minimum. It will be interesting to see how far the proposed legislation goes....the state House, Senate, and Governor are all Democrat. Long shot if it makes it, we'll keep our fingers crossed.
 
Why are there so many power hungry nuts in this world? It is not like they are wanted or appreciated, still they make it high up in society, Hillary being one blood bitch at it.
 
couldn't have imagined

Who would ever imagined a sheriff wanting to make their person beliefs be more important than the law. Just more reasons to place the LEO factor on the anti side.
 
Is it just me, or is this generally the way it goes. When was the last time law enforcement (as a group, not individual LEOs) actually supported individual gun rights. I know when they were trying to push no-permit carry up here, law enforcement seemed to be the most powerful opposition to it.

Which seem odd, especially in one of the easiest states to buy a handgun in. What, they think the criminals aren't already concealing illegally?

Especially silly, since you can already conceal without a permit outside city limits, which is a vast majority of the state, and you can already conceal in a vehicle without a permit, and several other nuances of gun law up here make the requirement for a permit to conceal on your person under clothing a pretty silly hoop to jump through. And we're shall-issue anyway.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, law enforcment. Any examples of them supporting (as a group) expanded (or restored) gun rights?
 
...And we're going to give people like that permits to carry? That's not gonna happen, and I won't give 'em to those people.
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Recall election - he just publically stated he will violate the law he swore to uphold. Get him fired now.
 
Iowa is terrible as far as CCW laws go. The fact that these Sheriff's are whining about it is no surprise at all to me. Shall-issue would take away one of their "powers", and no one likes to have their powers taken away.

So, a guy prone to domestic violence is going to be deterred by not being able to get a permit? It's already 100% legal for someone to carry on their own property, so I guess it'll just stop him from killing his neighboor's wife. :rolleyes:

A friend of mine's pastor was threatened by a guy for over 6 months. The guy called in death threats and left harassing messages on his answering machine. He was repeatedly denied a permit, despite proof that he needed to protect himself. That is, until the guy came into the church one day, yelling that he was going to kill the pastor while carrying a loaded shotgun. The pastor wasn't there, luckily, and the secretary was able to calm the guy down eventually, but after this close call the pastor was finally able to get a permit.

I've heard of people in Iowa getting permits just because they're friends with the Sheriff, but I don't personally know anyone in Iowa with a permit, so I guess that's just hearsay.

Iowa might not be as corrupt as some other may-issue states, but it's definitely not a good situation.
 
The problem doesnt just lie with the sheriffs it lies ultimately with the people of the state however legislature,governor and courts have done poorly in upholding the state constitution. We are quite lucky in Iowa we could easily be like California,New York,Massachusetts and other horrid states.

CCW permit issuance is totally up to sheriff the Law has unconstitutionally given them the ability of discretion in permit issuance. 99 different counties with 99 different sheriffs testing and issuance policies.
 
CCW permit issuance is totally up to sheriff the Law has unconstitutionally given them the ability of discretion in permit issuance. 99 different counties with 99 different sheriffs testing and issuance policies.
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In Massachusetts its ~350 different CLEO deciding on whom is "suitable" and who is "not suitable"
 
These guys are just making excuses. I know that many places in Iowa are rural and everyone knows everyone(or is kin of some sort), but Dubuque, and Story Counties are at the top of the list as far as population goes. They just want control.

The problem doesnt just lie with the sheriffs it lies ultimately with the people of the state however legislature,governor and courts have done poorly in upholding the state constitution. We are quite lucky in Iowa we could easily be like California,New York,Massachusetts and other horrid states
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Your apathy must extend to reading the states constitution. It does not guarantee the right to own guns, if it were like the states mentioned it would be constitutional within the state.
 
Sounds like Iowa residents need to invoke some Freedom of Information Act requests (FIOA) on CCW permit information. Things to look for are how many permits are issued by which sheriffs, to whom and for what stated reasons. If you get this information, looking up eacn person to determine if there is a pattern -- i.e. most permits go to election campaign managers, owners of businesses, politicians, reservist cops, etc. Then it can be shown that Josephine Average with the stalking ex-husband can't get a permit... yet Mr.Woolworth, owner of the largest store in town, who lives behind gates and walls can get one when he wants it.

Remember too, that if the state laws say the sheriff can exercise discretion in issuing a permit, that descretion is exercised only on completed applications. Refusing to even provide applications is refusing to exercise that discretionary power.
 
I hope that this conversion of may issue to shall issue works because hopefully it can then be used to convert CA and MA.
 
Some of these Sheriffs have assumed the role of Nanny, forgot their job is to enforce the law and perform the duties of the office....anything more is beyond their pay grade.
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"We enforce the laws. We dont legislate or judge the laws." This should be a mission statement of EVERY sheriff in this country. They should be required to say this (and the Pledge Of Allegiance) every morning before they sit down at their desks.
 
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Sounds like Iowa residents need to invoke some Freedom of Information Act requests (FIOA) on CCW permit information. Things to look for are how many permits are issued by which sheriffs, to whom and for what stated reasons. If you get this information, looking up eacn person to determine if there is a pattern -- i.e. most permits go to election campaign managers, owners of businesses, politicians, reservist cops, etc. Then it can be shown that Josephine Average with the stalking ex-husband can't get a permit... yet Mr.Woolworth, owner of the largest store in town, who lives behind gates and walls can get one when he wants it.

Remember too, that if the state laws say the sheriff can exercise discretion in issuing a permit, that descretion is exercised only on completed applications. Refusing to even provide applications is refusing to exercise that discretionary power.
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Iowacarry.org tries to get issuance information with FOIA. not all request are met its nothing new for sheriffs to deny information to even the press which has its pluses and minuses. IowaCarry.org is fighting it in a kindler and gentlier manner they dont want to step on toes. The information does little than is already known.

The best result of Shall issue in Iowa would be to influence Wisconsin and Illinois. Illinois is very big on the list because they ban guns in Chicago.
The Land of Lincoln what irony more like the land where you cant defend yourself nor afford a bodyguard or count on LEA to defend you
and those elected to protect you dont yet still electing those types.

Story county has a large university and the sheriff takes that into account for issuance.

Johnson County home to another large university has tons of Illinois and especially chicago area transplants and students.

In Massachusetts its ~350 different CLEO deciding on whom is "suitable" and who is "not suitable"
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Forgot to mention those 99 different sheriffs also get to make up there own county wide restrictions per permit and person. ie one county you must carry $500 cash for permit to be valid others supposedly its $2000. some have it restricted to useless. but if your issued a permit in one county you can go to any county and it will be valid despite that counties restrictions on their permits. state preemption law is a nice thing.
 
Good news is Zeller (Linn county) is supposed to be retiring. Bad news is there's no telling who will replace him or what the new rules will be. Heh...maybe I should run for sheriff :D
 
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