Solid Copper Ammo?
- Thread starter M1Lover
- Start date
dakota.potts
New member
Another good source is Nosler. Lehigh Defense has some .308 projectiles (and loaded rounds) but they're designed to fragment rather than expand, so I that's probably not what I would be using.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
Yes, those and don't forget the Nosler E-tip, which has better BCs than the other ones which have been around longer (Barnes & Hornady). I do believe that factory Federal "Trophy Copper" ammo uses a version of the E-tip. It's good stuff, Maynard.
By the way, some of these aren't truly "solid" copper - they are alloys of mostly copper, with a smidge of other metals; hence the phrase "gilding metal" for these alloys, rather than "all-copper" - but we know what you mean.
By the way, some of these aren't truly "solid" copper - they are alloys of mostly copper, with a smidge of other metals; hence the phrase "gilding metal" for these alloys, rather than "all-copper" - but we know what you mean.
ammo.crafter
New member
Cu++
From personal experience, I have found the Barnes TTSX to be a one shot killer in boar ranging in size from 200 to 350 pounds fired from a 7 x 30 Waters.
Besides their killing power I must say that accuracy is extremely consistent and easy groups 1/2 inch MOA at 100yds.
Best of luck in your hunt.
From personal experience, I have found the Barnes TTSX to be a one shot killer in boar ranging in size from 200 to 350 pounds fired from a 7 x 30 Waters.
Besides their killing power I must say that accuracy is extremely consistent and easy groups 1/2 inch MOA at 100yds.
Best of luck in your hunt.
mapsjanhere
New member
Barnes TTSX 168 gr, my last one went through a nice elk lengthwise all the way.
You don't need the heavier bullets in copper. Even bullets as light as 130 gr will be more than enough and I wouldn't go heavier than 150's in a 308. The heavier bullets are really best at magnum speeds. They also need SPEED in order to expand. Another reason to stay lighter. Once impact speed drops below about 2000-2200 fps expansion is poor. The 150's will get you to 300 yards, heavier bullets drop below that speed at just over 200 yards.
Why speed is important. Top photo is Nosler copper, bottom photo, Nosler Accubond.
Why speed is important. Top photo is Nosler copper, bottom photo, Nosler Accubond.
Cabelas and Midway both have Barnes 168gr TTSX in stock (for reloading), Midway has Barnes Vor-Tx ammunition in stock. That's what I'd recommend. I shoot them in 30-06, very happy so far on elk. It's a personal thing but I stick with Barnes for copper unless I can't find it. They've been in the game longer and I've used them and know they work. I love Hornady and Nosler as brands though so the GMX and E-tip may be just as good. Barnes has my money though with monolithics.
My experience has so far been that Barnes are the more accurate in my rifles. I was very excited when Nosler introduced the E-Tip but quickly found none of my rifles would shoot them to the level of the Barnes TTSX's. My son's rifle shoots the E-Tips MOA though so I believe my rifles are the cause.
TL: Yes, there would be a point that the length of the copper bullet would cause the need for a different twist but since the coppers like speed (and lots of it) shooting lower than traditional weights is recommended which makes the point moot.
jmr40 wrote:
I would say that not only don't you need heavier, you're better off going with the lighter. The coppers retain so much more weight over standard cup and cores that you still get excellent penetration, and as you state the faster the coppers are going the better expansion you get.
TL: Yes, there would be a point that the length of the copper bullet would cause the need for a different twist but since the coppers like speed (and lots of it) shooting lower than traditional weights is recommended which makes the point moot.
jmr40 wrote:
I would say that not only don't you need heavier, you're better off going with the lighter. The coppers retain so much more weight over standard cup and cores that you still get excellent penetration, and as you state the faster the coppers are going the better expansion you get.
reynolds357
New member
Tangolima, when using "copper" bullets, you match twist rate to bullet length, the same way you do it when shooting jacketed bullets. The length to grain ratio of the "copper bullets" is different than jacketed. So, a given twist rate will stabilize a heaver jacketed bullet than it will "copper bullet."
Or you can't shoot copper bullet of the same weight as jacketed bullet out of the same barrel.
I heard copper bullet doesn't need to be heavy, even lighter the better. I still can't wrap my head around this one. I always thought bullets should be made out of dense materials, lead or even depleted uranium.
-TL
reynolds357
New member
Yes, a given twist rate will stabilize a heaver jacketed bullet than it will copper bullet. You are correct in that you do not need to shoot the same weight copper bullet as jacketed bullet. Example an 85gr TTSX will outperform a traditional design jacketed 100gr bullet. The 85 TTSX will hang with the 100 gr bonded 6mm bullets. It will outperform them on direct heavy bone strikes. I did not really notice too much difference in my .243 Winchester,but in my 6x284Ackley, it became most evident how superior the TTSX is to the jacketed bullet. All I will shoot in my 7RUM is TTSX.
Is the area you drew requesting you use a monumental bullet "voluntarily to protect the condor" like they do the the Kaibab and Arizona strip or is this just you preferred choice?
I've hunted elk in AZ a few times and some areas require some seriously long shots. Last elk I shot in AZ took a laser measured 530 yards with a .300 Win. Mag. That was a few years back as I now hunt in New Mexico on a landowner tag.
What I am thinking is if a monumental bullet isn't mandatory, you might look at ammo with the 165 gr. Nosler Partition or maybe Accubond if anyone loads that one in their premium line. I particularly like the Accubond. I used a 165 gr. AB on a cow elk jan 13 of this year up in NM. One shot at 100 yards about a 20 foot stagger and down and out, DRT.
Paul B.
I've hunted elk in AZ a few times and some areas require some seriously long shots. Last elk I shot in AZ took a laser measured 530 yards with a .300 Win. Mag. That was a few years back as I now hunt in New Mexico on a landowner tag.
What I am thinking is if a monumental bullet isn't mandatory, you might look at ammo with the 165 gr. Nosler Partition or maybe Accubond if anyone loads that one in their premium line. I particularly like the Accubond. I used a 165 gr. AB on a cow elk jan 13 of this year up in NM. One shot at 100 yards about a 20 foot stagger and down and out, DRT.
Paul B.
reynolds357
New member
What is a "monumental bullet?"
The original X-Bullet made by Barnes was known for leaving large amounts of copper in the barrel, regular cleaning needed to be done to maintain accuracy. By cutting bands into their bullets Barnes was able to get lower chamber pressures, achieve better accuracy, and copper fouling has been greatly reduced. With the X-Bullet I found it best to clean after each range session, with the TTSX and LRX bullets I'm finding I can use the same cleaning regiment as I do with standard cup and core bullets and I'm still getting less copper than with some of those cup and cores.
Gents, A Follow Up on the Elk Hunt / Lead Free Bullets
First, a BIG thanks to all who provided info on using lead free bullets for my 2015 elk hunt. I'm hunting with a post-64 Winchester Featherweight model 70, in .308. I'm a bit Old School and figure that what used to work well, still works well. That said, I switched to lead free bullets for a number of reasons. Long story short, I went with Hornady's GMX 150 grain ammunition, first, because I've shot a TON of Hornady's 75 grain ammo in high-power competition, with excellent results and second because, well there isn't a lot of lead-free hunting options available. I bought two boxes, zeroed the rifle with 10 rounds at 100 yards with an old Weaver K-4 scope and went hunting. Took four days in the junipers 16 miles south of Twin Arrows, Arizona, but I finally figured out where they were moving in this "Limited Hunt" (not a lot of elk) area. I set up at about 1400 in the junipers, downwind from the trail and waited. Just about too dark, I figured it wasn't going to happen when I looked left and there was an elk at about 50 yards looking onto the trees where I was. In the low light I couldn't tell for sure if it was antler-less, which is what I had a permit for. She started walking towards me, ears and neck up, looked like a goddam camel, or a llama. She turned broadside and I saw it: No antlers. I aimed and fired without hesitation. I heard her puff, run and then drop. I sat still for 3 full minutes, then walked out to find her, 50 feet from where I shot her. Dead as a doornail. Just like its supposed to be done. Shot turned out to be a bit high, missed the heart, but went clean through both lungs, nicking one rib on the way in. Her last breath was her last breath. That was at 1800. By 0100 we had her loaded and by 0430 she was hung up, gutted, skinned and dressed. Then we got some sleep. At 0800 we had her quartered and hung in the awesome generator powered mobile walk-in cooler my partner had built. She was probably a two year old cow, but damn these are big animals. Its all in the freezer now, after hanging in the cooler at 34 degrees for 28 days. VERY good eating. Made about 30 pounds of bratwurst with a 50/50 pork/elk mix, mesquite smoked some they are AMAZING.
One poster here stated that "... elk aren't bulletproof"... Yep, I'm here to support that statement. One well-placed shot with any reasonably large caliber and its over.
THANKS for listening to the yarn. Hornady GMX 150 grain .308 rounds work just fine. Been in Arizona for 35 years, but this was my first elk hunt - and kill. REALLY looking forward to next year. H
First, a BIG thanks to all who provided info on using lead free bullets for my 2015 elk hunt. I'm hunting with a post-64 Winchester Featherweight model 70, in .308. I'm a bit Old School and figure that what used to work well, still works well. That said, I switched to lead free bullets for a number of reasons. Long story short, I went with Hornady's GMX 150 grain ammunition, first, because I've shot a TON of Hornady's 75 grain ammo in high-power competition, with excellent results and second because, well there isn't a lot of lead-free hunting options available. I bought two boxes, zeroed the rifle with 10 rounds at 100 yards with an old Weaver K-4 scope and went hunting. Took four days in the junipers 16 miles south of Twin Arrows, Arizona, but I finally figured out where they were moving in this "Limited Hunt" (not a lot of elk) area. I set up at about 1400 in the junipers, downwind from the trail and waited. Just about too dark, I figured it wasn't going to happen when I looked left and there was an elk at about 50 yards looking onto the trees where I was. In the low light I couldn't tell for sure if it was antler-less, which is what I had a permit for. She started walking towards me, ears and neck up, looked like a goddam camel, or a llama. She turned broadside and I saw it: No antlers. I aimed and fired without hesitation. I heard her puff, run and then drop. I sat still for 3 full minutes, then walked out to find her, 50 feet from where I shot her. Dead as a doornail. Just like its supposed to be done. Shot turned out to be a bit high, missed the heart, but went clean through both lungs, nicking one rib on the way in. Her last breath was her last breath. That was at 1800. By 0100 we had her loaded and by 0430 she was hung up, gutted, skinned and dressed. Then we got some sleep. At 0800 we had her quartered and hung in the awesome generator powered mobile walk-in cooler my partner had built. She was probably a two year old cow, but damn these are big animals. Its all in the freezer now, after hanging in the cooler at 34 degrees for 28 days. VERY good eating. Made about 30 pounds of bratwurst with a 50/50 pork/elk mix, mesquite smoked some they are AMAZING.
One poster here stated that "... elk aren't bulletproof"... Yep, I'm here to support that statement. One well-placed shot with any reasonably large caliber and its over.
THANKS for listening to the yarn. Hornady GMX 150 grain .308 rounds work just fine. Been in Arizona for 35 years, but this was my first elk hunt - and kill. REALLY looking forward to next year. H