So you call yourself a gunsmith

Yes, their skills have been talked about for over a century. I've seen a couple of "made from scratch" Lugers that were hard to tell from the real deal, but since Arabic and Roman characters are nowhere near similar, the markings get a little funny looking. But they work and fire, and in a culture where ANY gun is a handy thing to have, these craftsmen really do stand out.
 
We were anal about drilling holes at Trinidad State. If you drilled the hole in the wrong spot, it could affect the function of the part or how it interacts with other parts. Factories used jigs to do this (and there is a picture of the Griffin & Howe jig used to make the M-1C in the new sniper book). I want to see how those Pakistanis did that w/out a jig.
 
Wasn't arguing. It's amazing what they do with what they have. It would be nice to bring one over to do demonstrations. It could be a combination of cutlural anthropology and fabrication.
 
Upon his return from China in 1946

Not disagreeing with anything said in the post, just my two cents.

My father (still with us and still active at 97) brought home a knock off of a Smith and Wesson revolver.

He traded a pack of cigarettes for it in Lu Liang China in late 1945.

The fit and finish are good with bluing still fairly good 75 years later. The pistol, including the S&W emblem, on both of the grips looks fairly close to the real thing.

The internal components of the pistol were made from soft metal and the pistol is very loose and unshootable. It may have been unshootable when he first acquired it.

Imprint on either side of the barrel make use of non-English characters.

I have no knowledge of the actual origin of the pistol, but my sense is that it was made in China rather than in a Muslim shop.

Dunno.

Tnx,

Doc
 
Is it still in the family Doc Hoy and can you post pictures of it?

I'm not surprised it's of soft steel. What is heat treatment and with insufficient steel factories, they used what they could get. I'm thinking salvaged RR tracks.
 
Yes and Yes

Here are some photos of the pistol.

Left side and right side with a photo of the S&W grip badge. Worn but you can tell that the maker was trying to be thorough.
 

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More photos

The other grip badge. Some marking on the barrel. Note that the type face on the barrel is not English. Not being a language expert I cannot recognize it. I do not believe it is Russian.
 

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There is a village ???

Gary,
I wish I could remember more details but a number of years ago, there was a special on TV about a town/village over there, whose "entire" economy is based on making firearms and it didn't stop with rifles and handguns. They even made anti-aircraft machine guns and some artillery. Yes, all from scratch as shown in your videos. It was amazing and I wish I could remember the name of the town. I think it was in Afghanistan. ....... :confused:

Be Safe !!!!
 
Thanks Doc Hoy. I think the lettering is illteracy in action. The Chinese don't know the western alphabet. Hey, good enough for government work!

Pahoo - I found this one interesting. They show the heat treatment and it's the old fashioned case hardening with charcoal and leather. Hot salt bluing is shown. The videographer pans way too fast for my liking.

https://youtu.be/J-f7j-RlN_Q

I'd like to see how they do their stampings (M-3, MP-44, AK receivers and magazines).
 
I was wondering about the heat treating. However I doubt they are using very good steel judging from the poor quality of Pakistani knives I've had.

It's still amazing what they make with such crude tooling...

Tony
 
Doc Hoy, when you mentioned a Chinese copy of a revolver, I thought of Ian McCollum’s videos and book on the great variety of essentially hand-made Chinese pistols from the 20s and 30s.

Here’s a video from a few years ago -

https://test.forgottenweapons.com/a-selection-of-chinese-mystery-pistols-at-ria/

Here's the book he wrote. It’s out of my price range but I would love to look through a copy.

https://www.headstamppublishing.com/chinese-pistols

Ian says that some were made in government arsenals and reasonably good quality, but the majority were built in small workshops with no attempt at parts interchangeability or heat treating. The lettering is fun.
 
Had the opportunity to view that video

Very enlightening. It is a compelling explanation for the markings on my revolver.
 
There are stories, going all the way back to the British occupation of the region and the building of railroads, telling of how the Pathan tribesmen (and others) would rip up the rails to use the steel to make guns and other things.

Some were crude, some were actually well crafted, amazingly so considering. Reproductions of many different types of firearms, including some complicated designs, (such as Lugers and DA revolvers,) and sometimes even down to recreating the proof marks.

OF course, the steel used and the heat treating is suspect, the guns were never proofed even if they have proof marks, but some of the workmanship is amazingly good. Particularly so considering most (all?) being done by hand without modern, powered machinery.
 
I wonder about things like headspacing and timing. I also wonder how they make coil springs (we did that on a lathe) for things like triggers such that the weight is correct for recoil mechanisms such that they function reliably? iI suspect they buy their spring wire as it's easier. Timing is important for selective fire mechanisms. Weight of metal and parts affect the timing too.
 
I remember when Lee first came out with their Classic Cast reloading press line, a photo of the casting foundry showed piles of train rail lengths in the background. Some things are more universal than we expect. I remember when my dad took a class on making muzzle loaders the springs were all flat springs of carbon steel that were forge-heated then quenched in oil, and then tempered by putting a match to the oil to burn it off.

"Where there's a will…"
 
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