So a guy says that you handle your shotgun like a rifle.......
- Thread starter 9mmMike
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It means you're "aiming" too much. Unless you're shooting slugs, think more of horseshoes and hand grenades--"close is good enough" should be the focus, rather than "line up the sights" exactly on the spot on the target you wanna hit. Someplace around......"HERE"..BANG!! is more how it should feel and look. No more important piece of advice can be given when you're shooting birds (or anything moving at an angle) than: keep the gun moving gently and smoothly-- aka, "Lead the target". You can't 'aim at the chest' on a bird in flight, no matter what direction it's traveling.
Here's two examples:
Imagine an insect flying 45* away from you. Attempt to follow it by pointing your finger at it and imagine that your finger is the nozzle on a garden hose, adjusted to spray a jet stream of water. When you think your finger is lined up with the target, bang, you've squeezed the trigger as the gun stops swinging, and a short 'rope' of water 'chases' the bug.
Now imagine following the insect with your finger, but the garden hose nozzle is adjusted to spray a fan, or cone of water. How would you attempt to hit the insect? Keep the hose moving, leading the insect, and let the entire cone "paint the open space" with one smooth 'brush stroke'-- behind, at, and in front of, the insect in case he changes direction.
Rifle shooting and shotgun bird-shooting are like those two examples. The slower the target, the less you need to 'swing through it' (or, keep the gun moving) as you pull the trigger. The goal with a shotgun is to spread the pellets (whatever their number) through as big a portion of space as possible to obliterate the air that your target is traveling through. The only exceptions I can think of are human targets and large animals; in those cases, leading the moving target is still very important, but generally, their lack of speed requires a much smaller follow-through (swinging, or keeping the gun moving).
Here's two examples:
Imagine an insect flying 45* away from you. Attempt to follow it by pointing your finger at it and imagine that your finger is the nozzle on a garden hose, adjusted to spray a jet stream of water. When you think your finger is lined up with the target, bang, you've squeezed the trigger as the gun stops swinging, and a short 'rope' of water 'chases' the bug.
Now imagine following the insect with your finger, but the garden hose nozzle is adjusted to spray a fan, or cone of water. How would you attempt to hit the insect? Keep the hose moving, leading the insect, and let the entire cone "paint the open space" with one smooth 'brush stroke'-- behind, at, and in front of, the insect in case he changes direction.
Rifle shooting and shotgun bird-shooting are like those two examples. The slower the target, the less you need to 'swing through it' (or, keep the gun moving) as you pull the trigger. The goal with a shotgun is to spread the pellets (whatever their number) through as big a portion of space as possible to obliterate the air that your target is traveling through. The only exceptions I can think of are human targets and large animals; in those cases, leading the moving target is still very important, but generally, their lack of speed requires a much smaller follow-through (swinging, or keeping the gun moving).
He could also be referring to your stance. Shotguns are shouldered differently and the body position is different.
With a shotgun, shooting birdshot at moving targets, you should be leaning slightly forward with your nose over the toes of your leading foot.
Rifle shooters take an erect stand even leaning their upper bodies backward slightly to support the forward elbow against the hip.
The butt of the rifle is somewhat lower in the shoulder than the shotgun stance.
Women and other small statured folks often use the rifle stance to try and balance the weight of the shotgun. This type of stance limits upward body mobility and sometimes actually locks the upper torso preventing movement.
With a shotgun, shooting birdshot at moving targets, you should be leaning slightly forward with your nose over the toes of your leading foot.
Rifle shooters take an erect stand even leaning their upper bodies backward slightly to support the forward elbow against the hip.
The butt of the rifle is somewhat lower in the shoulder than the shotgun stance.
Women and other small statured folks often use the rifle stance to try and balance the weight of the shotgun. This type of stance limits upward body mobility and sometimes actually locks the upper torso preventing movement.
Thanks Geoff,
This is in fact an observation that a gentleman made about the Lovey Mrs. 9mmMike's stance.
She does tend to stand very erect with her right elbow thrust out and her support hand locked.
I will talk to her about this.
Between these two posts, I think we can make some serious progress.
Thanks again,
Mike
This is in fact an observation that a gentleman made about the Lovey Mrs. 9mmMike's stance.
She does tend to stand very erect with her right elbow thrust out and her support hand locked.
I will talk to her about this.
Between these two posts, I think we can make some serious progress.
Thanks again,
Mike
K80 makes some good points; stance never occurred to me. But he's right. Lots of clay bird shooters lean 'way over that front foot, almost using the back for 'just for balance'. It allows them to twist "with" the swing, instead of inhibiting movement as K80 describes, because the pivot is limited by the leg then, instead of the torso (at the hip).
Also, (and this might be a personal idiosyncracy) I try to keep the front elbow down, almost under the gun (but with the arm extended towards the end of the shotgun's forearm). I can shoot all day that way and not get tired. Ten rounds (250 birds) can get old at the end of the day if that lead arm won't "carry". There's a "fine line" between a strong arm and a smooth swing--some folks favor elbows out because it takes some of the jerkiness out of their swing (because the arm isn't as strong with the elbow out).
Also, (and this might be a personal idiosyncracy) I try to keep the front elbow down, almost under the gun (but with the arm extended towards the end of the shotgun's forearm). I can shoot all day that way and not get tired. Ten rounds (250 birds) can get old at the end of the day if that lead arm won't "carry". There's a "fine line" between a strong arm and a smooth swing--some folks favor elbows out because it takes some of the jerkiness out of their swing (because the arm isn't as strong with the elbow out).
Yes, the garden hose analogy is EXCELLENT!
Just think of being in the back yard with a bunch of kids in swimsuits, and you are trying to squirt them when they get in range. One comes streaking by, daring you to get him. You don't stop your swing of the hose, or make mental calculations of where the hose should spray so he runs into it, you just swing on target.
Just think of being in the back yard with a bunch of kids in swimsuits, and you are trying to squirt them when they get in range. One comes streaking by, daring you to get him. You don't stop your swing of the hose, or make mental calculations of where the hose should spray so he runs into it, you just swing on target.
CorpseEater
New member
Them sounds like fighting words!! Hehe, just kidding.
Moredes:
The late author Robert Ruark used your hose analogy, in a slightly different form, in a chapter titled A Duck Looks Different to Another Duck from the classic book titled The Old Man and the Boy. In it he says:
"The Old Man snickered a little more. 'I think I got this ballistics drawed down to where you can understand it. I got it what they call reduced to its component parts.'
"'Let's say you are watering the lawn. Your Cousin Roy runs through the back yard and you got the hose in your hand and all of a sudden you would like to wet down your Cousin Roy. He could probably use a bath, but let's don't get personal.'
"'If the kid is running against the wind and you got a hose in your hand and you want to wet him, you got to do several different things. One, you are pointing the hose. Two, you are figuring the wind. Three, you are figuring how fast Roy is running.'
"'So you know that a hose will squirt only so far before it bends backward in the wind. You know that Roy can run only so fast. So if you're as smart as I think you are, you point the hose somewhere ahead of Roy, let the wind take the water stream backward, and then let Roy and the stream collide at a point you've already figured out.'
"'That's duck shooting. That's ballistics. Shot go from a gun like water out of a hose. The duck comes on like Roy is running. The shot goes one way, like the water goes one way. The ducks go one way, like Roy goes one way. And the wind adjusts the relationship between Roy and the water, between the shot and the ducks. Because shot always string out like water from a hose.'"
Ruark was not only a damn-fine writer, but he was an able teacher, too, don't you think?
Good luck, and good shooting!
The late author Robert Ruark used your hose analogy, in a slightly different form, in a chapter titled A Duck Looks Different to Another Duck from the classic book titled The Old Man and the Boy. In it he says:
"The Old Man snickered a little more. 'I think I got this ballistics drawed down to where you can understand it. I got it what they call reduced to its component parts.'
"'Let's say you are watering the lawn. Your Cousin Roy runs through the back yard and you got the hose in your hand and all of a sudden you would like to wet down your Cousin Roy. He could probably use a bath, but let's don't get personal.'
"'If the kid is running against the wind and you got a hose in your hand and you want to wet him, you got to do several different things. One, you are pointing the hose. Two, you are figuring the wind. Three, you are figuring how fast Roy is running.'
"'So you know that a hose will squirt only so far before it bends backward in the wind. You know that Roy can run only so fast. So if you're as smart as I think you are, you point the hose somewhere ahead of Roy, let the wind take the water stream backward, and then let Roy and the stream collide at a point you've already figured out.'
"'That's duck shooting. That's ballistics. Shot go from a gun like water out of a hose. The duck comes on like Roy is running. The shot goes one way, like the water goes one way. The ducks go one way, like Roy goes one way. And the wind adjusts the relationship between Roy and the water, between the shot and the ducks. Because shot always string out like water from a hose.'"
Ruark was not only a damn-fine writer, but he was an able teacher, too, don't you think?
Good luck, and good shooting!
Skeetin'870
New member
i can attest to not leaning back after all my years of rifle shooting with grandpa i went to the skeet field and leand back and after four rounds my shoulder was noticably bruised and swollen. Take K80s advice lean forward but know the limit there is too much you whould have a 60/40 weight distribution on the left leg for righties opposite for southpaws.
Timely thread
I came to the shotgun section to post something similar.
I am deadly accurate with a rifle, , better than combat accurate with any handgun you hand me
Put a shotgun in my hand and the safest place to be seems to be the target zone.
Barns breath a sigh of relief when I have a shotty in my hand
Never have been able to figure this out
I came to the shotgun section to post something similar.
I am deadly accurate with a rifle, , better than combat accurate with any handgun you hand me
Put a shotgun in my hand and the safest place to be seems to be the target zone.
Barns breath a sigh of relief when I have a shotty in my hand
Never have been able to figure this out
Point that shotgun - don't aim. And slap the trigger quickly - don't squeeze.
And be darn sure of which is your dominant eye as you should be keeping both eyes open when shotgunning. If you're left eye dominant but shouldering your gun on your right arm (like me) you'd better know what your doing or you won't hit jack. Can't emphasize this enough - do your homework on this to learn more.
Another analogy to shotgun pointing (as opposed to aiming) - think about throwing a rock at a moving object. You don't sit there and aim - you follow with your eyes and throw the rock ahead of your target to hit it, right? If you miss, you keep trying and get better with every additional throw. Point - don't aim.
And be darn sure of which is your dominant eye as you should be keeping both eyes open when shotgunning. If you're left eye dominant but shouldering your gun on your right arm (like me) you'd better know what your doing or you won't hit jack. Can't emphasize this enough - do your homework on this to learn more.
Another analogy to shotgun pointing (as opposed to aiming) - think about throwing a rock at a moving object. You don't sit there and aim - you follow with your eyes and throw the rock ahead of your target to hit it, right? If you miss, you keep trying and get better with every additional throw. Point - don't aim.
all great advice. i've also heard that the difference between an advanced shooter versus others is that the advanced shooters focus steadily on the target and not their gun, while the lesser shooter will leave the target and concentrate on the gun's aim at that last critical second before trigger pull, which in turn causes you to stop swinging with the target. one instructor even advises that you focus intently on the leading edge of a clay target in order to keep yourself from shifting back to the gun.
i'm also told you need to trust your "subconscious computer" as to things like amount of leading of target etc, because "thinking too much" can impair your shotgunning technique as much as in any sport. i know that when i see my sons get a bit tense, i can often tell em something like "relax and just hit it this time"--and they almost always do.
i'm also told you need to trust your "subconscious computer" as to things like amount of leading of target etc, because "thinking too much" can impair your shotgunning technique as much as in any sport. i know that when i see my sons get a bit tense, i can often tell em something like "relax and just hit it this time"--and they almost always do.
I agree with what Tom said
After just recently going to a class in CQC Tactical type shotgun shooting, this is the exact advice I got......... Don't try to shoot like rife. Of course do be sure of your target and what is behind it as always. What impressed me what I how long a distance the shot stayed together before a lot of dispersing. I have no choke on my Mossberg Defender.
After just recently going to a class in CQC Tactical type shotgun shooting, this is the exact advice I got......... Don't try to shoot like rife. Of course do be sure of your target and what is behind it as always. What impressed me what I how long a distance the shot stayed together before a lot of dispersing. I have no choke on my Mossberg Defender.