Snide comments when asking for BP

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deerslayer303

New member
I make it a point to stop by every gun shop or sporting goods store to ask if they carry BP. I know my quest to find it locally or within a decent driving distance is not going to happen. But hey I can ask right? Any way most times when I ask for it I get some kind of snark comment as to why I want it. Today I got "who still uses that nasty inferior stuff anyway? That Pyrodex and Triple 7 we have right there is a far better product!" I replied, "you think so? Ok then" This was at a gun shop I've never been to that sells alot of outdoor gear. I figured I would drive over there just to see if maybe they had it. I think I'm about all out of options though so I'm going to order some from powder inc.
 
DS

Lot of good words about Powder Inc on this forum.

I personally have never ordered from them because powder in the small volumes I need is available here.

I get powder at guns shows at a coupla buck less than retail. You will do much better at Powder Inc.

They may have caps too.
 
I try to avoid most of the shops, at least while in CA. Idaho is entirely different, well that probably goes without saying. I use the muzzleloaders to tide me over while in CA working. Last time I bought caps, you'd have thought I was asking for the "salesman's" first born. Then he argued that I needed no 10 Remingtons, not the CCI 11's I had requested. This is the same feller that won't sell people home defense shotguns without going on his tirade about using slugs only, and I have overheard him state that he won't help them if they think otherwise. So obviously, some guy asking for caps is really far out of the realm of serious shooters. I will now be ordering caps online.
 
It used to bug me that..

....The LGS locations do not carry BP or C & B revolvers and such but I do realize that every square inch of counter or shelf space represents an opportunity for revenue.

It is kind of like a used car lot which measures market quality by the number of places for used cars on the lot.

I don't forward this as a reason to be rude to customers. I have not personally experienced a seller pooh poohing my interest but if I did I would not give him a second opportunity.
 
Yeah, I don't know what it is with some of these folks...they think only the latest can be the greatest, if you know what I mean. But then, I guess I'm a bit of a propellant snob myself - I wouldn't consider using anything BUT black powder! :D
 
I wouldn't consider using anything BUT black powder!
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I know right? I have BLACK POWDER RIFLES!! I don't have BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTE RIFLES! LOL it even says "BLACK POWDER ONLY" right there on the barrel :D
 
One of my experiences... Went to local gun shop, told them I picked up a BP revolver used, wanted something in 3f to try it out.... didnt really matter brand or BP or substitue. Guy behind the counter cuts loose, hasnt had any BP in a couple years, too expensive, too many regulations, nobody buys it, too nasty. I said I understand, and is it OK if I look around a minute..... Wandering thru the shop, I see a dozen or so cans of Pyrodex P on the shelf with the 777 2f and Shockeys Gold. Guy working at the shop says " Oh... I didnt know you wanted that. We never sell any of that stuff either." Wonder why ?
 
That is a good one....

JH,

Interesting story. I was told by a LGS operator who does carry BP and Subs that it is more expensive to store BP than smokeless. That may be because they cannot be stored in the same place.

Mykeal IIRC is very sharp on these regulations.

We have a Bass Proshop about 25 miles from here and they carry it at about $25.00 a pound. There is a Dick's Sporting Goods about ten miles from here and they want about 50% more than BPS.

The clerks at these stores are not smart enough to make snide comments.
 
Black powder requires different storage and handling, as it is truly an explosive, where as smokeless powder is a flammable solid.

When I lived in Pennsylvania the area where I was had a very active black powder hunting and re-enactment group, so I was always able to glome onto their group buys.
 
Obviously, there are different regs. on storage, handling of BP versus Subs as even most Walmarts around here have the Subs out on the shelves. Ask them for BP and they look at you like you've got worms crawling outta your eyes.

Far as the 'snarky' comments, I view this the same as when I go to the LGS and want something specific, the LGS doesn't carry it and the salesperson is bound and determined to show me everything else in the store telling me "this will work" or "this is better then what you want".

Don't get me wrong, there have been times when I've listened to the salesperson. Only cause I have a history with that particular person and trust their opinion. And these are the only salespeople I deal with at our LGS....if the salesperson is a stranger(say in Walmart), I usually repeat my specific needs and politely tell them I'm not interested in a substitute for my item.
 
I have a traditional BP rifle and an 1860 BP pistol and use Pyrodex out of necessity. I have to travel 90 miles to even get the pyrodex and to buy caps. That location does not carry real black powder. They stated that the regulations for real BP were too much trouble to them.

My local gun store carries some in-line items such as pellet powder and sabots to cater to the hunters. I have no interest in the in-line guns. The local store carries smokeless powder and primers, but do not carry caps. His explanation on the caps was that his supplier could get them but the minimum order to him would be a case. It would take him years to sell a case of caps. I order ball, wads, and other items by internet. I buy smokeless and primer at my LGS to avoid the shipping surcharge.

Neither my LGS or the one 90 miles away make snide remarks about my requests. They just explain, in a professional manner, why they don't have the item. I respect them for that and continue to give them business.
 
My LGS are pretty slim when it comes to bp stuff. AcademySports doesn't even acknowledge that bp shooting still exists, Dick's has one pegboard back in the corner with a few PowerBelts and T/C ramrod accessories hanging on it, and our two super Wal Marts don't even sell firearms anymore (Thanks local gov't, for protecting me from myself). The closest source is an auto parts store that has a dusty low-lit back room where they have old stock on deep, dark wooden shelves. They do have 70s-era balsa wood lures still priced at about 2 bucks, and cans of Hercules Unique dated 1987 for $13 bucks. (I got it for the .357, not the bp stuff, don't get excited). The round balls are all white from oxidation and look like they might have been original issue to the guys on the CSS H.L. Hunley and the Pyrodex is still marked $15 a pound, but it shoots just fine. When it runs out, I'll be traveling, because Bass Pro is 70 miles away, and is the next nearest purveyor of bp interests.
 
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones after reading all these posts. We have a gun store in Austin, TX that sells Goex but you have to ask for it at the counter and then they get it out of their special black powder storage magazine.
Also, I shoot at a lot of muzzle loading matches and usually there is a vender who sells the stuff at those matches. Also, cans of black powder are given away as prizes at many of the shoots.

For those who claim the subs are better or just as good, I challenge you to find a serious bench rest or offhand rifle competitor who uses the subs at the NMLRA or TMLRA shoots. They are allowed to use them but most of them don't. It's hard to beat the real stuff. The more I use it, the more I appreciate how terrible it is not.
 
If you are looking for true BP, check local muzzle loading clubs or groups. A lot of them make "bulk" purchases, and as long as you get in on the order in advance, you can score some.
 
For those who claim subs are better or just as good
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...

...there's a statement that can ,has been and will be debated for years.
Especially the, "just as good" part.

But alas, that's an age old debate for another thread.
 
Are any of the subs suitable for use with a flintlock?
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Depends on ignition temperature. Offhand I don't know of any - all the subs I've looked into have higher ignition temperatures than real black powder. One good 'solution' is to use a duplex load: 5 gr real black followed by your regular load of substitute powder (adjusted for the 5 grains of real black, of course).
 
When I first got my blunderbuss, I tried using Triple7 P in the pan and either Shockey's Gold or Triple7 RS as a main charge. It was like lighting a firecracker and waiting for the fuse to hurry up.
I got a case of mixed grades from Powder, Inc. and haven't used any of the subs since.
 
Mykeal's recommendation mirrors my experience -- Triple 7 won't light in a flintlock without 5 grains of blackpowder put in first. I use Goex FF in both my flintlock (4F in the pan) and my in-line. No reason to use anything else.
 
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