Savage 10ML-II
Oconnell, lets set trhe record straight. On another thread, you stated:
I have been to Savage Arms many times My brother worked there for years I have several freinds that work there and several that have retired from Savage arms I am well acquainted With savage arms All Have treid To point to is The M10mlII is not for people who have no experiance If many of the mistakes that are commonly made buy the inexperianced were made with regard to the Savage It will spell disasterThats what I tested for 250 gains mixed smokless powder taken out of 30 30 cartidges shotgun shells and no 556 cartridges and two bullets realy rocked the savage but it survived how ever when we loaded it with a double load one on top of the other we where unable to open the breech because the breech plug blew out The savage rifle is the strongest Muzzle loader on the market But can be broken buy some of common errors in muzzle loading and buy inexperianced people doing silly things Recomending the Savage rifle to the inexperianced person is Like Buying your teenaged son a new high powered sports car The savage is for the experianced muzzle loading rifleman Savage has come long way from the aufull junk that came out of Westfield in the 70s they now are one of the premire rifle makers in the country
More speicific:
what I tested for 250 gains mixed smokless powder taken out of 30 30 cartidges shotgun shells and no 556 cartridges and two bullets
So, you pulled the bullets on 30-30 Win. cartridges, 5.56 (.223 Rem.) cartridges, and cut open shotgun shells, and dumped the mixture of those powders, totalling 250 grains, down the bore, seated two bullets of undiscribed weight, then primed it and fired it? How did you come to the figure of 250 grains of powder? Did you actually weigh it? Or did you use your keen eye in a hog lot, to estimate it? At this point I am very tempted to state some very harsh opinions about your honesty, mental capacity, IQ level, and/or all the above. It is taking every once of my self control, not to do so.
Being that the breech plug and the 10ML-II did not let go all together is a testoment, that Savage Arms with the 10ML_II, has come as close as anyone ever has, to idiot proofing any firearm. Your own statements of your own irresponsible and unsafe actions, speak volumns of the strength and safety factor of the Savage 10ML-II. You need to thank God, that Savage builds the worlds strongest and safest muzzleloader.
I would strongly recommend that you take a both firearm safety and metallic cartridge reloading safety courses. The life you save very well may be your own.
Shheeesshhh, some people just should not be allowed own or handle firearms, period.
As far as Toby Bridges and the one and only blown 10ML-II is concered, there is so much more to that story than has been told. If I had just stumbled across Toby's webste and saw those pictures I would probably be just as shocked as anyone. Some of the things, the people here need to know about that blown 10ML-II are:
Toby Bridge's has for 1.5 years and maybe longer, prior to the that 10ML-II letting go, had been a very vocal advocate of very high pressure/velocity loads, to include duplex loads (the mixing of 2 different kind of powders in the same load), reverse duplex loads, and even triplex loads (the mixing of 3 different kind of powders in the same load). Not to mention, all kinds of stuff, stuffed under the sabot to prevent the sabot from blowing, like 28ga shotgun wad bases, wonder wads, MMP ballistics bridges, and combinations of all of them. Bottom line is Toby Bridges abused that rifle far beyond what any normal 10ML-II will ever see.
Savage Arms has done extensive testing and evaluation on the blown 10ML-II and has undeniable proof that the cause of the failure, was a bore obstruction. The rupture of the barrel started 5" in front of the breech plug and went reward toward the breech. Not behind the breech plug and traveling forward, like Toby states. There is a debate as too whether the rifle was intentually blown or not. The majority of those who know the story behind Toby and the blown 10ML-II, are of the opinion that Toby blew that rifle on purpose. It could be that, that particular 10ML-II was a victim of Toby's ego, greed, or a combination of both. It would seem that it is a true miracle that Toby was not even scratched, nicked, or even bruised when that rifle let go. That may be because, in my opnion, he was probably not within 20 feet or more, of it. He now talks about "how shaken up he was" and how he "had to pull over on the side of the road" several times on the way home. If this was true, why was he laughing about it when he called Henry Ball that very same day, the 10ML-II was blown. He actually thought that it was funny.
In late August 2004, Toby Bridges employment by Savage Arms was terminated, possibly over the impression that the rifle intentionally blown, insubordination, and possible fraud (false billing). Toby's contractual agreement with Henry Ball was also terminated, for breech of contract. After these terminations, Toby demanded $250,000 from Savage and $50,000 from Henry Ball, or he would plaster those photos and "his story" all over the internet, via his website, e-mails, and in written publications. Well, neither Savage Arms nor Henry Ball gave into Toby's attempted pethetic blackmail and extortion demands. But, Toby kept his word and on 28 August 2004, he indeed plastered "his story" and photos all over the internet and e-mails. Now Toby is facing multiple lawsuits, from Henry Ball, and my be facing more from Savage Arms.
I have as many rounds thru smokeless powder muzzleloaders as Toby does, probably more. I have had absolutely no safety issues what so ever, in over 15 years of shooting smokeless powder muzzleloaders and 5+ years of shooting the Savage 10ML-II. Toby Bridges has the honor of being the only person to ever have a 10ML-II let go in any manner. Toby did something even Savage could not do, that is to totally blow a 10ML-II. Savage tried and tried, and finally gave up trying to blow one. They were able to bulged the barrel on a few, but never have they been able to blow. Neither has anyone else. There have been 3 or 4 people that have bugled their barrels, by double charging and leaving the ramrods in the bore, but their 10ML-II's never began to let go.
Just remember these facts, Toby Bridge's is not a gunsmith, machinist, engineer, or ballistician. He has absolutely zero, none, and nodda qualifications at all, for claiming that the Savage breech plug has so called short comings. All he has is a belly full of sour grapes and is the epitome of the disgruntled employee. In fact the breech plug in that 10ML-II never failed, and that very same breech plug is still in use at Savage Arms today in a test 10ML-II.
Bottom line is, the Savage 10ML-II is the strongest, safest, and most user friendly muzzleloader ever introduced. Just because it can safely be shot using smokeless powder, doesn't mean the it absolutely has to be shot strictly using smokeless powder. It can be shot with BP, Pyrodex, T-7, or any other johnny come lately so-called BP substitute. If the fact, that it can be shot safely with smokeless powder upsets some of the more bassackwards thinking people, then I guess you will just have to get over it, or die with one. The Savage 10ML-II is here to stay, whether you like it or not, and the future of the muzzleoading sport is, smokeless powder.
Check these great sites out for accurate and straight information, not ignorant opinions, uninformed rumors, and absurd ramblings, about the Savage 10ML-II.
=http://wolfhound.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=savage
=http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage
=http://members.aol.com/randymagic/ballltd.htm