Smith Wesson Models & .357 Loads

B

Bullrock

New member
Obviously I'm not a gun expert like some of the folks on TFL, but I hear the comment 'SW model 19, or model xx, was never intended to be fed a steady diet of 357 magnum rounds' quite a bit.

My question is why not? Why would a gun manufacturer build a gun chambered in .357, when the gun wasn't built to take a steady diet of that calibre? I know.357/.38Spl...but most folks I know buy a .357 to shoot that calibre. On the other hand, having a cheaper, lighter alternative load is nice, but if that is all the gun can handle a steady diet of, why not just build it in .38Spl...???

OK! so help me out! What am I missing??? :confused: :confused:
 
The k-frame .357 was built on a .38 frame in order to make the .357 round (which had been designed for an N-frame) easier for police officers to carry. Revolver great Bill Jordan (who had a hand in its design and introduction) said it should thought of as a .38 that could (sometimes) shoot .357's--whereas the N-frame 27/28 was a .357 that could fire .38's.

So the missing link you seek is that cops wanted to be able to carry .357's, without toting a big 'ol N-frame. Given the metalurgy of the day, and the design parameters that S&W had on hand (the K-frame was right there, waiting to be so developed), it was a brilliant move, as evidenced by the fact that they sold a gagrillion of them.

The L-frame is the result of people failing to take Bill Jordan's advice. It is built to take a full-time diet of .357's.
 
The model 19 was designed for the 158 grain load that was popular at the time. The wide spread use of faster 125 grain loads that came later, is when some forcing cone problems started showing up.

Joe
 
Let me get this understood...I just bought a S&W model 66 , now is it right I can not use it as a .357 like it says......I reload so what if I used lighter "cowboy" type loads would that work........I am a little confused here, I thought if it says .357 then that is what you can shoot in it......
thanks
 
"now is it right I can not use it as a .357 like it says"

No, that's NOT right.

You CAN use .357 Mag. loads in your model 19.

You just have to be cognizant of the fact that since the frame is lighter, the gun is going to wear quicker than a gun with a beefier frame.

That's why the 581/586 681/686 L-frame revovlers were introduced, to beef up the frame to better take the pounding of a steady diet of .357 Mag. loads.
 
The M-19 handles 357's fine, just not a lot of them. It took less than 500 loads to expand one of my chambers. You could shoot the same load a long time in a BH. If you want to shoot lots of full 357 loads, buy a real 357 sixgun. If not the K frame will do great.
 
Same gun as a Model 19, only in stainless steel.

Same restrictions: Practice and do most of your shooting with .38 Specials.
Shoot .357's but try to stick to the 158 grain loads, since the 125 grain stuff is hard on forcing cones, and try to keep Magnum use low.

The truth: Most shooters will never fire a "K" frame S&W enough to cause any problems even with Magnum loads..

I know one retired cop who put AT LEAST 8,000 rounds of 158 grain Magnum's through his Model 19 and it's still in excellent shape.
 
Problems with the K-Frame Magnums did not become so evident until Police started practicing and qualifying with High Performance 125grn loads instead of .38's and 158grn magnums. I highly doubt that most of us shoot our revolvers as much as they did (this may not apply to some of us true gun nuts) and even if we do, we probably won't use exclusively hot 125grn stuff. I personally prefer heavier bullets like 158grn anyway because I don't care for excessive muzzle blast.
 
Not shot lighter bullets in my M-19. What got mine was 173 gr. Keith's and 15 grains of H-110. Cost "too" much getting it fixed, plus I lost my recessed cylinder.

Now days I use the same bullet but 5.5 grs. of 231. That's about 1050 fps in my 4" gun.
 
So lighter bullets means higher pressures, higher velocity and more recoil?

Or do the heavier bullets generate more recoil?
 
Going the same speed, heavier bullets = more recoil; but lighter bullets typically go faster. The main threat to k-frames is not recoil in general, but the blast of gas and pressure that hits the forcing cone/cylinder gap when a light (125 or 110 grain) bullet is launched very fast with a relatively slow-burning magnum powder; it hits the gap/cone with terrific force (already having accelerated so much) and a blast of explosive gasses. Together, these things can cut into the top-strap (the gasses) and crack the forcing cone at its 6 o'clock weak point (the fast bullet).

Heavier bullets are typically easier on guns because they accelerate and move more slowly; a 158- or 173-grain with the same hyper velocity (as a light bullet load) would be at least as hard on the gun, and recoil more for the shooter.
 
Like was posted earlier. If you want to shoot .357 all the time get yourself a Ruger Blackhawk or a Ruger GP100 or a S&W L frame; 686/619/620/586/581/681. Or, if you're a true gun shopper, get yourself a S&W M28 Highway Patrolman. Now that's a classic .357 magnum revolver.
 
Jeff, you're absolutely right. I have one of the Highway Patrolmen and it is a classic. No worries about what ammo I use in it. The only thing better would be a 3.5" Model 27. Also, heavy bullets may still generate timing issues in a K-Frame, but I suspect that's easier to fix that a split forcing cone.
 
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