Happy Memorial Day to all. I recently picked up a Smith in .455 Eley at an estate sale. NRA excellent, mirror bbl.,all matching numbers on bbl,cylinder,frame. Even still had the lanyard attached to the butt swivel.Before I order brass from Buffalo Arms, is it possible to fire .45 Auto Rim in this pistol without machining anything. I wouldn't want to start ruining any value just to switch ammo. Owner's son said it came from the Canadian Mounties. Forward of the swivel is a small crown with the number 30 under it. Thanks in advance for any info.
Smith & Wesson .455 Eley
- Thread starter Ronin7.62
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ronin,
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!
Ok, obviously I'm jealous, but that's my problem, I'll deal with it.... sob...
Ok, no, you aren't going to be able to shoot Auto Rim brass in that critter unless the gun is REALLY loose.
The Auto Rim has a pretty thick rim on it. That's why to convert guns so chambered (such as the Webley VI) people had to either countersink the chambers ore cut the rear off the cylinder on a lathe.
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!
Ok, obviously I'm jealous, but that's my problem, I'll deal with it.... sob...
Ok, no, you aren't going to be able to shoot Auto Rim brass in that critter unless the gun is REALLY loose.
The Auto Rim has a pretty thick rim on it. That's why to convert guns so chambered (such as the Webley VI) people had to either countersink the chambers ore cut the rear off the cylinder on a lathe.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Are you in Canada or the US?
What did you pay for the gun, if I might ask?
A gentleman I know in the Vancouver, B.C., area got one for something less than $150 American, IIRC.
Handgun prices in Canada are pretty low right now...
What did you pay for the gun, if I might ask?
A gentleman I know in the Vancouver, B.C., area got one for something less than $150 American, IIRC.
Handgun prices in Canada are pretty low right now...
After WWII, many Colt, S&W and Webley revolvers chambered for the .455 were altered by trimming the back of the cylinder so they could fire .45ACP with half moon clips. This was done because .455 was difficult to obtain in the U.S., while .45ACP is common. These revolvers, once altered, can no longer fire the .455, and cannot fire the .45ACP without the clips, but can fire the .45 Auto Rim. Note that this is different from the Colt and S&W revolvers chambered for the .45ACP, which have chamber shoulders and which can fire the .45ACP without clips, though simultaneous extraction is not possible.
Jim
Jim
Thank you also, Jim. As to the price, I picked it up for $200 at an estate auction. I live in Florida and the auction was in West Palm Beach. Maybe I'll try to find just a cylinder or parts gun to make the switch rather than operate on this one. Question for Mike or Jim, how rare is this pistol, any idea as to current value in the U.S.? Thanks guys.
Chris McDermott
New member
The 455 S&W's aren't really rare, its just that most of them you find are converted to 45 Colt, beat to death, missing the lanyard loop etc. Ones in NRA excellent condition with original stocks, lanyard loop etc are very hard to find. Even rarer would be a commercial model that isn't covered with the British or Canadian proof marks. Is your gun a first model (triple-lock action, ejector rod shroud, 5000 made), or second model (~75000 made)?
Thanks Chris, Mine must be the second model. Not a triple lock with ejector shroud. But it is in NRA excellent condition and even the lanyard is in real nice shape, no frays or stains. The only marks on the pistol other than the serial # is that tiny crown (30) forward of the lanyard loop. I'm a happy camper!
Mike Irwin
Staff
You stole the damned gun.
You absolutely stole it.
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU! (That keeps happening... )
I've seen them in Northern Virginia going for as high as $700 in really nice shape.
I think that's a bit on the high side, but a good estimate of value of one in the condition that you describe would be $300 to $500, at least.
The fact that it hasn't been converted actually cuts both ways. It makes it more desirable to a collector, but it makes it less desirable to a shooter.
Of the two, however, the collector will generally pay you more money.
You absolutely stole it.
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU! (That keeps happening...
)I've seen them in Northern Virginia going for as high as $700 in really nice shape.
I think that's a bit on the high side, but a good estimate of value of one in the condition that you describe would be $300 to $500, at least.
The fact that it hasn't been converted actually cuts both ways. It makes it more desirable to a collector, but it makes it less desirable to a shooter.
Of the two, however, the collector will generally pay you more money.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Nifty Old Revolver!
Ronin--
Congratulations on your excellent purchase.
I urge you NOT to do any manner of conversion on that fine old 2nd Mod Hand Ejector.--The best you would accomplish would be a decent imitation of a military 1917 S&W, and it would ruin collector's value.
I'm sure there are may who would be willing to swap you another revolver which would shoot .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim for your old pistola. (Whoops! Wrong border.)
You have exactly the right idea about obtaining proper ammo/brass and shooting your .455 in original caliber. And, also--Please do not try to load it up as a magnum or hot .45 Colt--It is a fine, old, original piece, and I believe you would gain much more from the experience of shooting it with loads similar to what the RCMP and Brit military used, than ammo similar to what everyone else at the range uses.
According to Barnes' Cartridges of the World, the .455 Revolver MK-2 factory load is a 265 RNL, at 600 fps. The bullet typically has a rather long nose, nearly conical but with a well- rounded point.
If you can locate the proper bullets, excellent. Some custom casters will size .45 Colt bullets to your desired diameter; most won't.
If you can't locate exactly what you want, Find someone who sells the Winchester 255 LRN Flat Point, hollow base .45 Colt bullets. There are easier to locate now than they were a few years back, due to the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting. These soft lead bullets are swaged with a hollow base, to about .452 diameter, but the soft lead and HB design allow them to slug out and you can get good accuracy with ‘em.
This bullet with 5.0 gr. Unique will just about duplicate factory ballistics.
Good shooting, sir!
Best,
Johnny
PS--If, after you mess with your revolver a bit, you are dissatisfied with the trouble of making your own ammo, I have an excellent shooter S&W HE in .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim. Perhaps we could work out a swap.
JPG
Ronin--
Congratulations on your excellent purchase.
I urge you NOT to do any manner of conversion on that fine old 2nd Mod Hand Ejector.--The best you would accomplish would be a decent imitation of a military 1917 S&W, and it would ruin collector's value.
I'm sure there are may who would be willing to swap you another revolver which would shoot .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim for your old pistola. (Whoops! Wrong border.)
You have exactly the right idea about obtaining proper ammo/brass and shooting your .455 in original caliber. And, also--Please do not try to load it up as a magnum or hot .45 Colt--It is a fine, old, original piece, and I believe you would gain much more from the experience of shooting it with loads similar to what the RCMP and Brit military used, than ammo similar to what everyone else at the range uses.
According to Barnes' Cartridges of the World, the .455 Revolver MK-2 factory load is a 265 RNL, at 600 fps. The bullet typically has a rather long nose, nearly conical but with a well- rounded point.
If you can locate the proper bullets, excellent. Some custom casters will size .45 Colt bullets to your desired diameter; most won't.
If you can't locate exactly what you want, Find someone who sells the Winchester 255 LRN Flat Point, hollow base .45 Colt bullets. There are easier to locate now than they were a few years back, due to the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting. These soft lead bullets are swaged with a hollow base, to about .452 diameter, but the soft lead and HB design allow them to slug out and you can get good accuracy with ‘em.
This bullet with 5.0 gr. Unique will just about duplicate factory ballistics.
Good shooting, sir!
Best,
Johnny
PS--If, after you mess with your revolver a bit, you are dissatisfied with the trouble of making your own ammo, I have an excellent shooter S&W HE in .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim. Perhaps we could work out a swap.
JPG
Thanks Johnny, Mike, and all. After listening, please have no fear. I now have no intention of maiming this fine piece. And Johnny, much appreciate the info on the loads for my new sweetie.
The fellows at Sierra were most helpful in obtaining relaoding data (free of charge yet)! What a great, customer orientated company. This gentleman named Carrol sent me 12 pages of documentation on the two types of cases and stats. Now to phone up RCBS and get started.
The fellows at Sierra were most helpful in obtaining relaoding data (free of charge yet)! What a great, customer orientated company. This gentleman named Carrol sent me 12 pages of documentation on the two types of cases and stats. Now to phone up RCBS and get started.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Hey Ronin,
Want me to put you in touch with my Canadian friend who just got one of these?
BTW, give me the first couple of digits on the serial number, and I should be able to give you an idea as to when it was made.
Want me to put you in touch with my Canadian friend who just got one of these?
BTW, give me the first couple of digits on the serial number, and I should be able to give you an idea as to when it was made.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Skip,
Well, you really can't take the brass "off the top," which I would interpret to mean off the face of the base. Removing that much brass would cause problems with the primer pocket depth.
However, you can take the brass of the OTHER side of the rim, the side facing the case mouth.
You need a lathe to do this, and it's a pain in the butt.
Luckily, however, you don't need to take this rather drastic step with the .455. Cases are available.
Well, you really can't take the brass "off the top," which I would interpret to mean off the face of the base. Removing that much brass would cause problems with the primer pocket depth.
However, you can take the brass of the OTHER side of the rim, the side facing the case mouth.
You need a lathe to do this, and it's a pain in the butt.
Luckily, however, you don't need to take this rather drastic step with the .455. Cases are available.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ronin,
The serial number will have to wait until this evening. I'll give a shout out to my friend Mike here in a minute, and have him contact you.
The serial number will have to wait until this evening. I'll give a shout out to my friend Mike here in a minute, and have him contact you.