Smith & Wesson 340 vs 642/442

J

Joe_Pike

New member
I have a 642 and a 442, each with no lock. I have pocket carried a 642 for almost eight years and love how it carries. However, recently I sometimes find myself feeling like I need something more.

The city I live in has a population of about 150,000 and with the surrounding areas the population probably gets up to around 250,000. The FBI recently issued a report stating that the city I live in is the most dangerous city in the country based on population. I have personally had two incidents of people trying to break into my house while I'm there within the last 4 1/2 years and two people were murdered in my neighborhood last year. Despite how it sounds, I don't live in a bad neighborhood.

I have tried to figure a way to carry a double stack nine but with the way I dress and with the way I'm built it doesn't seem to work out. And, with pocket nines, I don't seem to gain more than two more rounds over the j-frame which leaves me less than excited to leave the revolver which carries so well. So, that got me to thinking that maybe a step up in power might give me a little comfort.

I usually carry something like a 135gr +P load in the 642 and I just bought some 158gr semi-wadcutters to try out. However, I have started looking at the S&W 340 .357. It's the scandium frame with the stainless cylinder weighing in at about 13 ounces, which is about 2 ounce lighter than the 642. I was thinking that range time with .38 Specials and carrying .357s might be a way to go. I know shooting .357s out of this gun has got to be brutal.

My question is this, is it worth going to the 340? Does a .357 out of such a short barrel have much of an advantage over a .38 special? Am I nuts for even considering shooting .357s out of a gun this light?

Any experiences that you can share with me would be appreciated.
 
I had the 11-ounce Model 342 (in 38+P) and sold it to buy the 340 shortly after they came out. Both were great to carry, but not to shoot. I often carried the first 3 rounds in the 340 keyed up with the same 135 grain load you mentioned, then the next 2 125 grain 357s.

Especially with the 357s there was a lot of wasted flash and blast out of the 2" tube. I forgot the exact numbers, but chronograph showed only around 1,050 fps out of the 2" barrel - not all that much faster than 38+Ps, especially when considering the time it took to get back on target between shots. If ya are so motivated, you might do a search for some of my old posts when I may have even posted the results here on TFL or possibly THR.

And ... the first thing I did (after some trigger work) was to get rid of the factory grip that left the backstrap exposed. Big ouchies. Considerable improvement with installation of either type of softer rubber Crimson Trace grips.

With a student shooting my 340 a couple of years ago (during the ammo shortage), we blew that 340 up using some of his sandwich bag gun show reloads in 38+P. With what the 340s were (and still are) selling for, I never replaced it - just chalked it up to "lessons learned" and put the CT grips onto a 15-ounce 637 in 38+P.
 
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I sold my M&P 340 because the most I could shoot out of it controllably was Rem golden sabers 357 or 357 SBGDs to me these aren't much more effective than the old FBI 158gr +p LSWCHP.
If I was gonna go back to a 357 snub it'd be a heavier gun either a 640 or a LCR 357.
 
Unless you have a red "S" on the front of your shirt, you won't be able to fire enough .357 from a Scandium J-frame to get used to it. And the bandages and pain killers for your wrist will slow your draw.

Stick with the 642.

Jim
 
I shoot/carry a LCR357. Gold Sabor and camperable 357 is doable if you are young and strong. I have gone to 38+P. It's a lot easier on my old wrist. Street Results released by Police that use it in back up guns and off duty guns, have reported Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P doing the job quit well. Good enough for me. I carry the LCR and a 442 every day.
 
Unless you have a red "S" on the front of your shirt, you won't be able to fire enough .357 from a Scandium J-frame to get used to it.
Click to expand...

The best I can do is some red pizza sauce from lunch.
 
I bought one of the J frames in 38spl just so i wouldnt be tempted to load 357.

The one time i shot a students 357 J frame with full house 357 mag ammo. I fired a pair of shots and handed it back. Too much for me.
 
I recently got a 442 for myself and a 642 for my wife. Those have plenty of "POP" with just P+ 38's.

I'll pass on anything that size in .357 thank you.
 
While your concern over the crime in your area is certainly understandable, in almost any scenario imaginable your 642 with top shelf 38+P hollow point ammo will do everything you'll need it to. As you've no doubt already learned, hot 38+P from those light snubs is punishing. 357 is brutal and possibly damaging to your hand/wrist.
 
Newhall Massacre

Look it up.

In a nutshell, the officers involved trained with .38s but carried full-power .357 magnums in their revolvers. When they time came to shoot, they didn't land a single hit on the perpetrators.

I don't think you realize how much recoil you're talking about with an M&P-340, and how much that's going to affect your follow up shots. Your airweights loaded with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 special +P 135 grain are both plenty effective and are much more controlable. I should know, I carry a 642-1 with these loads everyday as my primary CCW option and shoot it often at the range, with said carry load.

Don't get to worked up about "power". For one thing, .357 magnum looses a great deal of energy in snub barrel lengths, especially the short 2.25" and 1.875" barrels. For another thing, the mentioned Speer Gold Dot SB .38 special +P load is plenty effective and performs really well in FBI criterion ballistics gel tests:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k890Rio2oBY

You already have all the power and gun you need my friend. Fear not.
 
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If you want to shoot magnums, I suggest a K frame Smith.
I have a 2 1/2" 66-2 which isn't bad shooting 357's
I carry it in a OWB holster with my shirt untucked which conceals it nicely.
 
My question is this, is it worth going to the 340? Does a .357 out of such a short barrel have much of an advantage over a .38 special? Am I nuts for even considering shooting .357s out of a gun this light?
Click to expand...

In order ...

Depends ... Yes ... Maybe.

I own a pair of 642-1's. (I liked my original one so much that I bought another one when they made that initial production run using older 642-1 frames which had been gathering dust in their parts inventory.)

I own a pair of M&P 340's. The first one is from the first production run of their introduction, and the second one was when they eventually offered the 'no-lock' model (seemed like a good excuse at the time to justify a second one ;) ).

I really only bought that first M&P 340 because I looked at it as sort of an "improved" 642/442, meaning it had a stronger Scandium aluminum frame (than my 642's) and the XS front night sight set up. It's probably the best sight set up I've used on a J-frame.

I wasn't particularly interested in it being chambered in .357 Magnum, and I'd have still bought it if it had only been chambered in .38 Special. (The company later produced a special run of a similar model approved for purchase by LAPD officers, I was told, chambered in .38 Special.)

Yes, I've shot a fair amount of Magnum loads in mine, but I'm a longtime Magnum revolver shooter. However, I also usually prefer to carry the same +P loads in my M&P's as I carry in my 642's.

I'm more interested in maximizing my ability to make fast, controllable and consistently accurate shot strings, and using the +P lets me do that marginally better than using Magnum in that lightweight snub model. (I'll pull my heavier all-stainless SP101DAO .357 from the safe if I want to carry and shoot Magnum loads.)

While it's possible to obtain higher velocities with the same bullet weights in Magnum loads versus +P loads, even in short barrels, I suspect it quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns for most owners. The higher velocities come at the cost of significantly more muzzle blast and recoil force/torque (and the resulting loss of controllability, and the introduction of greater shooter pain).

Granted, felt recoil and pain are going to be subjective and quite variable for most folks. Some folks don't mind +P, and some can't stand anything more than standard pressure loads ... and it's a shooter's prerogative to choose (unless the choice is made for you, of course).

Ever shoot a M&P 340/360 or PD, using Magnum loads? Try it and see for yourself.

Me? If I feel the need for a little "more power" per round fired than what's available in my .38's (or LCP .380), I usually reach into the safe for one of my 9's, .40's or .45's ... or my heavier SP101DAO (since I seldom carry my medium-framed 6-shot .357's or large-framed .44's anymore).

Now, how trained, experienced and well-practiced are you at loading (same thing as 'reloading') using your 642/442's? Not saying you'll need to reload as a practical matter in a private citizen shooting incident (but you never know), but it can be a handy skill to develop and refine if you're carrying revolvers as dedicated defensive weapons. Reinforcing safe manipulation and handling skills can be a good thing, especially if the gun's being handled and operated under stress.

FWIW, the stock grip on the newer M&P 340 isn't nearly as "speedloader friendly" with the Safariland & HKS speedloaders I've used for many years. Reminds me of how older wooden revolver stocks didn't always lend themselves to the use (clearance) of speedloaders back in the days when we carried service revolvers.

I just ordered new speedstrips to replace those I've been carrying for many years, because several of my "older" ones have had the tabs snap off, or they've broken apart in the middle, so to speak. (The last one to break came out of my pocket as 2-rd & 3-rd mini speedloaders.) I guess going on 20 years is long enough to have gotten my money's worth out of those older ones.

Luck to you in your consideration and decision.
 
I used to have a model 442 and currently have a 642, and m&p340. I luckily didn't buy it new as I don't think it would have been worth the expense. I do carry it on occasion still loaded with 38 special.

One thing to think about is that the Rear sight trough on the 340 is cut differently. You don't line up the tops of the rear sight with the top of the XS dot for point of impact. The trough is cut into a Deeper "u" shape that the dot is supposed to visually sit on however the trough is black color and difficult to see. Other XS sights in semi autos have a whites stripe to let you see the rear sight more easily. If you like lining up the tops of sights, I find that having the rear notch 2/3 up the XS sight will cause impact in the center if the dot. I just try tell myself it's a belly gun but I tend to be more accurate with the traditional sight picture, less to think about if I'm shooting out to 7 yards. Otherwise I reflexively line up the tops of all the sights and POI is 4 inches low at 7 yards which is no bueno In my book.

I don't notice a difference between the scandium and other j frames when in pocket as a difference in a couple ounces could be made up with grip and holster selection.
 
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I've owned a 342PD as well and just as Greybeard said, great to carry but not to shoot. Even with mild target loads, the brutal recoil and subsequent slamming of my finger into the trigger was a follow up shot killer. I don't want to even think about what the .357 is like. It's amazing what a few ounces can do because the Airweights (642,637,442) are a joy to shoot, IMO.
 
Buffalo Bore makes some plus pee loads that are more powerful than Speer's 135 gr MGN Short Barrel, both in 125 gr JHP and 158 gr FBI lead load. I wouldn't shoot them out of a 15 oz 442, but it can be done. If I lived in your hood, I would carry a M640 Pro. I live in a very safe place, and I carry one. Its no different than my M442 on a belt holster. I save the 442 for pocket carry in summer. My carry ammo is the Speer 135 gr SB, in plus pee.

Best,
Rick
 
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