I have a S/W 32 5 round break open revolver with hammer and with 3" barrel. Serial #10xxx. top of barrel is stamped Smith&Wesson Springfield Mass Pat'd pend JAN 17&24.65 next line is JULY 11.66 AUG 24.69 FEB 20 1877 REISSUE JULY 24. 1879. the last digets on some of the years were really hard to read so there could be errors I woud like help in finding its maufacture date. I would like to fire this. I have read different opinions on using modern ammo in this type of older pistols. If this is to old to use a modern cartrage is there any one manufacturing cartrages that would work? Any other options?
Smith& Wesson 32 how old is it?
- Thread starter john1
- Start date
carguychris
New member
It would be helpful to know if this is a spur-trigger single-action gun or a double-action gun with a trigger guard.
That said, the "Reissue" patent marking suggests that it is the former, which would make it a .32 Single Action aka Model 1½ Centerfire. The serial number range for this model is 1-97574, and they were made from 1878 until 1892, which implies that #10xxx was made ca. 1880. BTW the odd "half model" nomenclature comes from S&W's decision to introduce an earlier tip-up rimfire gun larger than the .22-caliber Model 1 but smaller than the 6-shot .32-caliber Model 2.
If the gun is double-action, it is a .32 Double Action 2nd Model, also made ca. 1880.
Either way, this gun falls solidly within the black powder era. Firing smokeless powder loads in it is generally inadvisable. The gun is chambered in .32 Smith & Wesson or .32S&W, an obsolescent caliber that's not stocked by many local gun shops but is slightly easier to find via mail-order; however, AFAIK all currently-produced commercial .32S&W ammo is loaded with smokeless powder. (This cartridge is sometimes called .32S&W "Short" to differentiate it from the more common .32 S&W Long, which won't work in a top-break.)
IIRC Old West Scrounger (OWS for short) produced a run of black powder .32S&W a few years ago, but it appears to no longer be offered. You might be able to find some on Gunbroker or at a local gun show. Winchester offers a black powder blank, but that doesn't help you if you want to make real holes in an actual target.
Most shooters who fire these types of guns on a regular basis handload their own ammo with black powder and cast lead bullets.
Two warnings:
That said, the "Reissue" patent marking suggests that it is the former, which would make it a .32 Single Action aka Model 1½ Centerfire. The serial number range for this model is 1-97574, and they were made from 1878 until 1892, which implies that #10xxx was made ca. 1880. BTW the odd "half model" nomenclature comes from S&W's decision to introduce an earlier tip-up rimfire gun larger than the .22-caliber Model 1 but smaller than the 6-shot .32-caliber Model 2.
If the gun is double-action, it is a .32 Double Action 2nd Model, also made ca. 1880.
Either way, this gun falls solidly within the black powder era. Firing smokeless powder loads in it is generally inadvisable. The gun is chambered in .32 Smith & Wesson or .32S&W, an obsolescent caliber that's not stocked by many local gun shops but is slightly easier to find via mail-order; however, AFAIK all currently-produced commercial .32S&W ammo is loaded with smokeless powder. (This cartridge is sometimes called .32S&W "Short" to differentiate it from the more common .32 S&W Long, which won't work in a top-break.)
IIRC Old West Scrounger (OWS for short) produced a run of black powder .32S&W a few years ago, but it appears to no longer be offered. You might be able to find some on Gunbroker or at a local gun show. Winchester offers a black powder blank, but that doesn't help you if you want to make real holes in an actual target.
Most shooters who fire these types of guns on a regular basis handload their own ammo with black powder and cast lead bullets.
Two warnings:
- I would strongly advise you to find a gunsmith who's at least somewhat familiar with top-breaks and verify that it's safe to fire. Although S&W was one of the higher-quality revolver makes from this period, 19th-century guns were generally made of much softer steel than modern firearms, so they tend to "loosen up" a lot more with repeated use.
- Do not, I repeat, do NOT, under any circumstances, even THINK about firing .32ACP (aka .32 Auto or 7.65mm Browning) ammo in this gun! This ammo is commonly available and will chamber in most of these old .32S&W top-breaks, but it is loaded to higher pressure than the original ammo, and it always contains smokeless powder. It will most likely blow the revolver up and possibly take some of the shooter's fingers with it.
Don't try it!
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carguychris
New member
Y'all please note that I made several corrections to my initial post.
This gun is double action and has arounded trigger gard and rounded side coveralso a spur hammer. I got some info from the local library today and it seems that I have the model 4 made 1883 - 1909 over 200,000 made so I'm guesing that with the low serial number I'm still in black powder age. If unable to find correct ammo I will just store it away. Thanks for your input. I might have done somthing stupid without it.
johnny red
Inactive
you should be able to shoot 32 s&w ammo. i have one serial 76### it is a 32 double action fourth model mine is nickel finish. it isnt black powder it is a cartridge round. i have been told you can shoot 32 short but havent try it you can still get 32 s&w look on internet.
madcratebuilder
New member
Your revolver is not safe to shoot smokeless powder. You could hand load some black powder .32's. Hang it on the wall.
Early cartridge revolvers used black powder as the propellent. Black powder creates at a much lower pressure than smokeless.
johnny red said:
Early cartridge revolvers used black powder as the propellent. Black powder creates at a much lower pressure than smokeless.
carguychris
New member
+1 Madcrate. I'd also like to add some other notes:
As I noted in my first post, .32S&W is often called "Short" to differentiate it from .32 S&W Long; .32 Rimfire was often called "Short" to differentiate it from various longer .32-caliber rimfire rounds that were marketed for specific brands of 19th-century firearms.
The gun should be chambered is .32S&W, but as noted before, AFAIK all recently-produced commercial .32S&W is loaded with smokeless powder and is not suitable to be fired in this gun.
.32 Rimfire, "Short" or otherwise, has not been commercially produced in decades. Most of it was loaded with black powder, but this is irrelevant as it will not work in this revolver.
There isn't a round called simply ".32 Short". Two rounds are colloquially called ".32 Short" - .32S&W, a centerfire round that is still produced in limited quantities, and .32 Rimfire, which is obsolete.
As I noted in my first post, .32S&W is often called "Short" to differentiate it from .32 S&W Long; .32 Rimfire was often called "Short" to differentiate it from various longer .32-caliber rimfire rounds that were marketed for specific brands of 19th-century firearms.
The gun should be chambered is .32S&W, but as noted before, AFAIK all recently-produced commercial .32S&W is loaded with smokeless powder and is not suitable to be fired in this gun.
.32 Rimfire, "Short" or otherwise, has not been commercially produced in decades. Most of it was loaded with black powder, but this is irrelevant as it will not work in this revolver.
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Some comments on black vs smokeless powder. The issue is not the type of powder, but the pressure and how/where it is applied. Smokeless powder can be, and is, routinely loaded to the same pressure levels as black powder. The current factory .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .38 S&W are smokeless but are loaded to a black powder pressure level with powders that do not extend the pressure curve. They are safe to fire in any well made revolver even of the BP era.
Some experts, erring on the side of caution, say to never, ever, ever, ever fire any smokeless powder load in pre-1910 guns as they will blow up and wipe out the county. Pretty much nonsense. I have fired hundreds of rounds of modern ammo in those guns with no problems.
That being said, look at the chamber walls on an old revolver. Some have chamber walls little thicker than a business card; those guns should not be fired at all, with any load, even black powder, again no matter what the experts say. All old guns are NOT automatically safe to fire with black powder any more than all old guns are unsafe to fire with smokeless.
Does this mean you should buy a couple of cases of .32 S&W (if you can find it!) and head for the range with your H&R breaktop? Not really; most of those old guns were not made for extensive firing and can experience all kinds of problems well short of blowing up. They can shoot loose, break springs, break hammers and firing pins, crack old hard rubber grips, and all sorts of problems that will reduce an old gun from a nice collectible to junk.
One problem area is the .22. Modern .22 LR ammuntion is pretty high pressure (24,000 psi) and makers do NOT take older guns into consideration. Modern ammo should not be fired even in some guns made up to the 1930's.
Jim
Some experts, erring on the side of caution, say to never, ever, ever, ever fire any smokeless powder load in pre-1910 guns as they will blow up and wipe out the county. Pretty much nonsense. I have fired hundreds of rounds of modern ammo in those guns with no problems.
That being said, look at the chamber walls on an old revolver. Some have chamber walls little thicker than a business card; those guns should not be fired at all, with any load, even black powder, again no matter what the experts say. All old guns are NOT automatically safe to fire with black powder any more than all old guns are unsafe to fire with smokeless.
Does this mean you should buy a couple of cases of .32 S&W (if you can find it!) and head for the range with your H&R breaktop? Not really; most of those old guns were not made for extensive firing and can experience all kinds of problems well short of blowing up. They can shoot loose, break springs, break hammers and firing pins, crack old hard rubber grips, and all sorts of problems that will reduce an old gun from a nice collectible to junk.
One problem area is the .22. Modern .22 LR ammuntion is pretty high pressure (24,000 psi) and makers do NOT take older guns into consideration. Modern ammo should not be fired even in some guns made up to the 1930's.
Jim
johnny red
Inactive
I have put 20 rounds of the 32 s&w thru my 32 double action with no problems at all.