Small Chainfire this weekend....It's the nipple end, not the chamber mouth

P

possum

New member
Witnessed a small chainfire this weekend with an Uberti 1858 Remington copy.

Involved only one chamber besides the one under the hammer. Left only a small smudge of lead on the frame of the pistol that wiped easily off.

The shooter didn't even really feel the difference, and we didn't discover it until we attempted to recap one nipple and discovered all six chambers had fired.

What happened was the second shot failed to go off.

The recoil of the first shot pushed the cap off the next nipple enough so that the cap got "smeared" when the hammer was cocked back and the cylinder revolved for the second shot.

And yes, every single cap that I put on a BP revolver gets pinched and pressed down twice.

The hammer fell on the second shot, but only hit the wall of the cap and the head of the cap containing the primer compound got "smushed" by the rotation of the cylinder causing that cylinder to not fire.

When that chamber failed to go off, the shooter waited for 10 seconds to check for a hangfire, and then kept firing, intending to just recap that unfired cylinder at the end of the string of shots.

After the fifth shot, we grabbed another cap, and tried to see which cylinder was still loaded.....only none of them were, and then we found the little lead smear on the left side of the frame, near the base of the loading lever.

In all, the chainfire was really no big thing. The shooter didn't even notice when it happened.

And it was caused by sparks getting down the nipple of the loaded chamber.

I use .451 roundballs, which shave nice rings of lead off when I load, and depending on how I'm feeling, between 20 to 40 grains of FFFg.

When I first started shooting BP revolvers, I used to do all that stuff with the chamber mouths.....smearing lube over the chamber ends, or filling in with corn meal atop the powder charge, etc. etc.

But I soon tired of doing all that, and just started loading them with oversized balls that leave shaved lead rings and pinching the caps.

This is my very first chain fire ever, and seems obviously caused by an uncovered nipple during firing, not sparks getting into a chamber's mouth around a tight-fitting lead ball.

It was the only chain fire of the day, and we shot at least 60 more shots out of that Uberti before we called it quits with no problems whatsoever.

As for cleaning, I just disassmble, and wash in hot soapy water, and then use a hair dryer to dry off the parts (gets them good and hot, too) and then reassemble and lightly oil.

possum
 
I've been shooting '58 Rem replicas for 20 years and knock on wood no chainfires. I've never seen but heard several instances of this occuring. maybe it involves sloppy loading, undersize balls/slugs or caps jarring loose off the nipples. I always use the correct size caps and after pushing on with thumb very carefully lower the hammer on them while pointing downrange and press cap on firmly. I use a felt button over powder with a small dap of grease atop then seat the ball/slug. I figure it's careless handling or mistakes when loading that causes this. they are as safe as you make them.
 
right size caps

Possum I have the same gun and found that a #10 Remington cap was a perfect fit,no pinching the caps needed.I don't think a pinched cap seals as good as one that is the right fit.I found that the CCI's are a little smaller than the Remingtons.

I have a Colt 1851 Navy that uses the CCI#10.My Colt Walker uses a Remington #11.You should be able to find one that fits right.
 
Flashover features.

I got into a discussion about flutes, someone wrongly suggested that they were there to prevent flashovers.

Anyway in my research I found in a book a text version of a Scientific Paper given by Samuel Colt in London, about 1851.

There were two things that I did not know that I learned from that paper.

Samuel Colt said a topstrap increased the chances of a flashover. Burning powders would follow the topstrap right back to the end of the cylinder. Said it had happened on his solid frame rifle.

Also, the bevel on the chamber mouth was not there to center the ball , instead Mr. Colt stated that he had the bevel put on to reduce flashovers. He said the bevel directed the flash. I assume forward.
 
I use to have a pic of a cap and ball revolver fired in the dark ..quite impressive ...it throws fire and brimstones from both ends . I didn`t wonder how flashovers happened anymore . I understood how my old couch pillow caught fire when I used it to bench rest on too.:D
 
Perhaps the "smeared" "smushed" cap detonated and ignited the powder? I've been shooting a Rem. 1858 repro since '71 (fired it at night once, wow fire seemed to be coming from everywhere), but consider how a live spark traveling rather fast would have to make sharp turns to enter the nipple and still be hot enough to ignite the powder, I also put grease over the balls when I started, also use .451 & .454 caliber round balls, those lead 'rings' formed when seating ('swaging') got me looking for information about "chainfires", the quotes mentioned by Sam Colt I think might have been more an effort to discourage purchases of Remington pistols than a factual statement, read of an experiment in which the intent was to create a chainfire, loose powder was allowed to adhere to the grease - no chainfire, loose powder scattered about nipples - no chainfire, propane torch to front of loaded cylinders - no chainfire, torch to uncapped nipples - ignition only when flame directed straight into flash-hole. Regardless, glad everyone came out safe, the pistol too, stay safe, BP likes to bite the nonchalant.

p.s. I still put grease (crisco) over the seated balls, partly 'old habits die hard' also helps lessen leading/powder fouling & makes cleaning a little easier, and it STINKS! Makes the 'modern' pistol shooters on the line GAG!
 
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