Skorpion Vz-61?

M

Model12Win

Moderator
I love the looks of the Czech Vz-61 Skorpion machine pistol in .32 ACP:

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I have the opportunity to buy one of these, semi-auto only and with no stock of course, but am wondering if anybody out there has any experience with them. It seems that if loaded with something like Speer Gold Dot 60 grain JHP rounds in the 20-round magazine, it would be useful for home defense. I plan to mostly make this a range gun though.

If anyone has any experience with these guns, good or bad, please let me know. Thanks!

M12
 
I do not have any experience with one but have seriously looked into them and know quite a bit about the select fire military version. I have handled a semi auto version at a gun store. I would say that it does not really serve any practical purpose as semi auto. .32 is a very low powered round and a JHP bullet may not even make it to the vitals of a perp, especially if they are heavily clothed or wearing homemade armor. With the .32 you would really have to treat it like a .22 and go for head shots. Also the semi auto vz61 is meant for ball fmj ammo and may not reliably feed JHP ammo. Being a closed volt version of an open bolt design, it may not be 100% reliable with even fmj ammo.

The czP09 pistol holds 19+1 9x19mm, and costs about $550 brand new. 9mm is going to be much more powerful than .32, and .40 and .45 even more powerful. If I were you I would pick a full size handgun that feels good in your hand, it will hold plenty of rounds yet be lighter and easier to aim and more powerful than the scorpion.

Now if you have money to blow and you just can't go without a scorpion, go ahead, but I think it would be a poor home defense gun.

Some full size pistols I may suggest for home defense

Glock 17, 19 (9mm)
Glock 22,23 (.40)
S&W M&P 9, 40
Cz75 (9, 40)
CzP09 (9, 40)
Walther PPQ (9,40,45)
H&K vp9,40
Sig P320 (9,40,45)
Sig 226,227 (9,40,45)
Springfield, sig, Colt, cz, kimber 1911 (9,45)

These are just general suggestions. If I were you I would avoid anything below 9mm and anything with a magazine disconnect safety. Feel free to PM me for any questions or anything
 
I have never shot one, but being czech made quality firearms, they should shoot well. I would bet at 25yds if you find a load it likes (which there is a load every gun will shoot better than all others) it should be able to shoot a 1-2" group rested. Probably better. I have had a 1954 CZ52 and it shot well, and was well made. I have shot a buddy's vz58 semi auto that is a Czech military rifle and it shot very nice and was well made. For a range gun it would be awesome.

And if you are a hunter at all; I bet it would make a really sweet little squirrel gun or small game gun to 50yds. There are probably aftermarket sights or you can modify your stock ones. There may even be a aftermarket red dot mount
 
I used to have an original model VZ-61, in 7.65 Browning (.32 ACP). I actually liked it quite a bit. It was surprisingly accurate, easy to maintain and dead nuts reliable.

When I got it, I assumed that it would be hard to shoot well without a stock, because it is sort of like an over-sized, over-weight pistol. Not so. It was easy to shoot and displays so little recoil that staying on target was no problem.

The negatives: I had tremendous difficulty finding 32 ACP brass for reloading. Bullets weren't much of a problem, though. Since I always reload all of my ammo, this was something of a deal breaker. Next, the gun ejects the brass straight up out of the gun, with considerable force. This makes it very hard to recover the brass for reloading, especially outdoors. You wouldn't think this would cause such a problem, but I found it very problematic. It threw the brass upward so hard that it actually shattered florescent light tubes positioned above the shooting stations, at my local indoor range. So, I had shattered glass raining down on my head. (Needless to say, I never shot the VZ-61 indoors again. Next, I found that the Scorpion would not feed anything but round nose bullets. It was very particular about this. I tried several bullet shapes, to no avail. Round nose was it. Lastly, resale of the gun was difficult. Many dealers (at least, in my experience) won't touch one of these on trade, because 32 ACP is not a very popular round (anymore).
 
Limnophile said:
I like the idea of a vz 61 with folding stock, but short-barreled rifles are verboten in my state.
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No they're not, SBRs are legal to buy and own here in WA as of two years ago. The only issue is that the poorly-written law is currently interpreted to mean that making your own SBR on a Form 1 is illegal. But while that part of the law is being sorted out, it's still legal to buy an SBR or have a manufacturer make on for you.
 
SBRs are legal to buy and own here in WA as of two years ago.
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Thanks for the info, but you just caused me considerable pain, as my ideal vz 61 not only has a folding stock ($200 federal tax), but a silencer (another $200 federal tax) and a red-dot sight. With the law denying me the gun, I could afford to dream big.

I see the vz 61 is now available in .22 LR:

http://czech-small-arms.com/en/15-produkty/80-caliber-22-lr.html.
 
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Limnophile said:
Thanks for the info, but you just caused me considerable pain, as my ideal vz 61 not only has a folding stock ($200 federal tax), but a silencer (another $200 federal tax) and a red-dot sight. With the law denying me the gun, I could afford to dream big.
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Ha, sorry about that :D. But I definitely feel your pain; I just put in the paperwork for an LMT 10.3" 5.56 SBR. Not the most expensive SBR on the market, but definitely not cheap.
 
I have a VZ 61 in my collection just because they re so neat looking. The History is interesting. Got mine in 2010. They have come back out with them. They cost twice what i paid for mine and are available in 380 and 9mm MAK. (Soon 22LR.) Not a real practical pistol. Only 20 rd mags. They were designed as full autos.
 
I know this thread is a bit old but I wanted to thank everyone who shared their experience with this pistol. I plan on getting one of these guns as a range toy, I am going to go with the 32acp version over the 380 or 9mak due to the steel mags. I just don't have a good feeling about the plastic mags on the other versions and the steel 20 rounder's are available.
 
Well I went ahead and got my new 32acp Skorpion and really like it. I am hoping to get out to the range this weekend and try it out and am glad to pick something I will be able to shoot when I'm old and cant shoot something that has to much kick lol. Anyone have any ammo suggestions for this beast?
 
smee78 said:
Anyone have any ammo suggestions for this beast?
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Although I have no experience with the VZ 61 in specific, I'll offer the following general guidance.

American .32 ammo is generally loaded to lower pressure levels than European or Asian ammo. Consequently, some firearms have trouble cycling the American stuff, and even if they don't, the terminal effectiveness of American ammo will be lower.

I personally recommend Fiocchi, S&B, PMC, and Geco ammo, not necessarily in that order.

Some .32 ACP firearms have rim-lock or double-feed problems with JHP loads because the cartridge OAL is less, allowing the rounds to shift around in the magazine. This is not a problem with most FMJ ammo because most factory FMJ is loaded close to max OAL and most .32 magazines are designed around this dimension, so the ammo doesn't have room to move. Make sure you do extensive testing before using JHP for SD or HD, because clearing the pistol using the standard "tap-rack-bang" procedure will NOT clear a double-feed jam; the ONLY way to clear one in a hurry is to have another magazine handy! :eek:
 
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If you want to shoot try some imported 32APC rounds like Sellier & Bellot - 73gr FMJ . It is an easy shooting pistol.
 
Thanks everyone for the input, I will pick up some S&B from my LGS to give it a try first, I know they have some of it in stock.
 
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