sizing dies

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skizzums

New member
hi, as some of you know, i am about to start pouring my first bullets, i went online to order my lee sizing die kit, before i clicked on .356, i figured i should slug some barrels. so i chose my 3 fav 9mm's and heres how they came out. my SCCY cpx-1(my usual carry pistol due to size/accuracy) measured at .355. my S&W(my gf's usual carry pistol becuase of it's larger size which she can actually shoot) measured at .356. my hipoint 9mm carbine(favorite mid-range plinker) measured .356.

so, where do i go from here? would .357 be too large for the sccy? would .356 be too small for the others? the hipoint is just a toy, so don't really take that into consideration when you ponder this. i really dont care to have 2 different sizes of bullets for different guns. so if i could squeeze a .357 down the sccy w/o any accuracy issues, i'd be okay with that.
 
i have yet to pour my first bullets, so not sure what the hardness will be, ideally i'm hoping to get around 10-12 hardness, just depends on what my work-ups present me with. good question though, i guess that could make all the difference. i am using TG powder and cci#500 or the federal small pistol primers(i have about 1k of each). going to use about .20# of tin to 1.5# of pure lead and 6# of WW. i'll start with that formula and work on air dry vs. cold water and see where my harrdness is at. thanks to Mike from Tx for helping with my metallurgy. i have some .356 penn bullets that i havent shot yet, so i will try those and see if my reload shop will sell me 1-200 .357 for comparison before i order my dies i suppose.
 
Read through the alloy information on this LASC page. Soft enough alloy will bump up some in the bore and using the quickest powder that still makes your target velocity without creating excess pressure will maximum bump-up.

Did you measure your slugs with a micrometer or with a caliper? In most people's hands, a micrometer is much more reliable for this kind of measurement.

You can shoot oversize cast bullets and best accuracy is often at 0.002" oversized, but they have to fit in the gun. Since some brands of brass have thicker neck area than others, you'll need to check that whatever you make fits and feeds OK. If you were thinking of sizing at .357, you may want to wait until you've cast enough bullets to know what size they are coming out as cast. If it's .3565", then there's not much point in running them through a .357 sizer. Indeed, you may well find they shoot best as-cast and with no sizing. I do that whenever they still fit and feed, as they seem to shoot the smallest groups and leave the least amount of lead behind that way.

I'll move your post to the bullet casting forum.
 
IF (and that is the factor) your chamber will take a bullet sized at .357 when seated and crimped, that is where you should be, .001 to .002 0ver bore is ideal. There is a saying with cast---FIT IS KING.
 
How hard is your lead?
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Good question, but you might have told him why it would matter. If I may, O.P., the sizing die will produce a bullet sized to the diameter for which it is marked only if the lead alloy is soft enough to not "spring back" after it is pushed through the sizer. For instance, if the die is marked .356 and you have a relatively hard alloy, the bullets may come out at .357 in diameter where as a soft-alloy bullet will be sized to .356. I solved such variations by making my own sizing dies (machined, heat-treated), in various increments so I could get the exact size I wanted.
A non-machinist may choose to get two or more sizing dies in .001 increments...but if you are using Lee (less expensive stuff),you may not have the money for that.
 
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Jump back, snap back, memory, recovery and spring back, then I am reminded of an episode of Welcome Back Cotter, Vinnie claimed 'I am sooooo confused".

Then there is the next excuse for not being able 'to do it', variations, too many variations.

Lead is dead, when I put a dent in lead it stays, when the manufacturer/smelter cast lead and test the lead for hardness the test dent dimension does not change, the depth of the dent does not decrease nor does the diameter close up.

When I drop something with memory and or recover does it not bounce, when I drop lead it does not bounce, There was a time when testing the hardness of lead I would simply drop the ingot on the floor, a dead sound meant the lead was soft, a ring in the sound meant it was harder than lead. Then I read the article by R. Lee, he, with the help of an old reloader/caster could guess the hardness by hitting the ingots with the round side of a hammer, they were good, and they had confidence.

F. Guffey
 
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Jump back, snap back, memory, recovery and spring back, then I am reminded of an episode of Welcome Back Cotter, Vinnie claimed 'I am sooooo confused".

Then there is the next excuse for not being able 'to do it', variations, too many variations.

Lead is dead, when I put a dent in lead it stays, when the manufacturer/smelter cast lead and test the lead for hardness the test dent dimension does not change, the depth of the dent does not decrease nor does the diameter close up.

When I drop something with memory and or recover does it not bounce, when I drop lead it does not bounce, There was a time when testing the hardness of lead I would simply drop the ingot on the floor, a dead sound meant the lead was soft, a ring in the sound meant it was harder than lead. Then I read the article by R. Lee, he, with the help of an old reloader/caster could guess the hardness by hitting the ingots with the round side of a hammer, they were good, and they had confidence.
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Without your frame of reference, I find your statements confusing. They may be clear to you, but I assure you they are not clear to me.
Lead is considered to be "dead" in that there will be no spring-back if pushed thought a die. However, cast lead bullets are not "lead". There are Lead, Tin, Antimony, Arsenic, Copper, etc., depending upon the exact source. Pure lead has little or no tendency to return to its original size, lead alloys with other metals added however, do. I found this out the hard way...when complaining on a casting site about how the bullets from my Lyman sizing die were in fact larger than the die was labeled, another poster suggested there was some "spring-back going on due to the alloy. Always the doubter, I cast a few of "pure" lead and found that they indeed sized to the exact dimension for which the die was labeled. Had to eat crow...lots of it.
 
you guys are speaking outside of my paygrade, but from what i'm pieceing together, your saying using an alloy(which i am), i should stick with .356 because it will come out at .357? if i buy .357 it may come out to be .358?(which is obviously too large for any of my bores).

i am using WW ingots and adding about .25#s of tin to a 10# batch.
 
you guys are speaking outside of my paygrade, but from what i'm pieceing together, your saying using an alloy(which i am), i should stick with .356 because it will come out at .357? if i buy .357 it may come out to be .358?(which is obviously too large for any of my bores).
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With an alloy close to yours (about 2% Tin if my math is correct), and wheel weights, I had a spring-back of about .001 of an inch. The problem is, I do not remember if it was a 9MM bullet, or .45 ACP bullet. The amount of spring-back on .356 bullet would be much less than on a .452 bullet. To muddy things further, I may have been oven-hardening those bullets also...a poor memory is the first casualty of old age. If I were you, I would just go with the diameter you want.
 
One other thing to consider,

Once you pour up your nice new shiny bullets, it pays to let them sit for about 2 weeks before sizing, and you won't see much if any differences from growth.

I learned the hard way on that one with some I ended up having to pull. I poured them sized them and loaded them all in a two day period. The next weekend they wouldn't chamber. Luckily I had only loaded up a dozen or so to test, rather than several hundred.
 
yeah, im not a comp shooter or anything, so i figure .356 will be fine without causing any problems. they are ordered so it's done anyways. still waiting on molds, and heven't yet bought a bottom pour. although, i'll probably get antsy and pour of a few by hand as soon as i get the dies, i'm pretty impatient. thanks everyone.
 
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