First post, hopefully it will show up in the reloading forum. I’ve decided to load up some rounds for my Ruger #1 458 win mag this winter. I’ve owned it since the early 1970s, so I guess it’s about time to see if it actually works. I’ve seen numerous questions and comments about reloading for the 458, from sizing to powder and bullet combination for everything from rabbits to rhinos. I’ve also read a few threads addressing reloading for the #1 specifically, but in the interest of getting everything in one place I’ll pose these questions: first, if I insure bullets of whatever weight are seated firmly in the case neck, I see no need for any type of additional crimping. Sound right? Second, since I’ll be firing all rounds/loads in the same rifle, neck sizing only would seem to be all that’s required, in fact, preferred since the cases will be fire formed to the chamber. Third, if the above is correct and I’ll only be neck sizing, is there any reason that I shouldn’t just use my 45-70 dies for neck sizing and bullet seating. I’d greatly appreciate hearing from all of you with actual loading and firing experience for the 458. Thanks!
Single Shot 458 win mag
- Thread starter Jemecad
- Start date
I have looked into neck sizing more than a couple times. The general consensus from my research has been that full length resizing is better. Even if you neck size, periodic full length sizing is needed as the rounds stop wanting to feed into the chamber. You need a little bit of play to ensure proper feeding.
As far as crimping. In a single shot i would agree it is not necessary. However crimping can help build pressure by delaying the bulets release. Your call.
As far as using a 45-70 neck sizing die? The only neck sizing dies i have used were the lees. And they were very case length dependant. With the 458 being 0.395 longer i dont think it would work in a lee 45-70 dies. Also based on my hornady manual both use the same bullets diameter, however the outside mouth diameter is .480 for the 45-70 but the 458 is .481. Leading me to believe the brass could be thicker on the 458 at the mouth. Based on variances in brass and dies you might be able to make it work. But again, dependant on your dies.
Personally, i would be looking for a set of full length dies.
As far as crimping. In a single shot i would agree it is not necessary. However crimping can help build pressure by delaying the bulets release. Your call.
As far as using a 45-70 neck sizing die? The only neck sizing dies i have used were the lees. And they were very case length dependant. With the 458 being 0.395 longer i dont think it would work in a lee 45-70 dies. Also based on my hornady manual both use the same bullets diameter, however the outside mouth diameter is .480 for the 45-70 but the 458 is .481. Leading me to believe the brass could be thicker on the 458 at the mouth. Based on variances in brass and dies you might be able to make it work. But again, dependant on your dies.
Personally, i would be looking for a set of full length dies.
Last edited:
reynolds357
New member
I can tell you pretty much any load you find for it in a load book is sufficient for rabbits.
stagpanther
New member
I actually do have a few neck-size dies.
{No commercial images without permission from and attribution to the owner. See board policy on posting copyrighted materials.}
{No commercial images without permission from and attribution to the owner. See board policy on posting copyrighted materials.}
reynolds357
New member
In all fairness, the bench rest " full length sizing" we do is close to neck sizing. My 6PPC and my 6BR body dies are an exact match to my finishing reamers. So though technically FL sizing, it's not the same FL sizing the hunting reloader does.I actually do have a few neck-size dies.
stagpanther
New member
It's my favorite t-shirt and I always wear at the range--it gives the other shooters pause for thought, plus I have a ready-made excuse if I'm not shooting well.
welcome to TFL
Welcome to TFL!!
First question, do you have a set of dies for your .458 Win Mag?
IF not, get some. I have RCBS and recommend them, though I'm sure Lyman or some others would be fine as well. I don't like Lee dies, personal thing, they work, but I won't recommend them.
As to all those who gave well intentioned advice about neck sizing and crimp, do any of you own /load for the .458 Win or Ruger single shot rifles???
I ask because what is often sound advice for bottle neck cases and repeating rifles may not apply or apply the same way with a shoulderless case in a single shot rifle.
The .458 (and the .45-70) and some other "straight" rifle cases look straight but are actually not straight cylinders, there is a taper from the case mouth to the base, which is several thousandths larger than the mouth. They are "straight" in that there is no case shoulder, not that they are one constant diameter from mouth to case head.
I don't think this applies to the OP's rifle. It's a single shot Ruger No.1, feeding is by hand, there is no magazine to feed from. Also, since there is no magazine holding rounds subject to recoil, a crimp to keep the bullets in place is not needed.
It is true, there is .001" difference in the case mouth spec. But, in practical terms, its not going to matter. Because the .458 is loaded just like a straight pistol case. Sizing the mouth down an extra .001" is no big deal, because the expander stem will ensure correct inside neck diameter, and add a case mouth flare. And the flare will be removed by proper adjustment of the seating die.
Again, reasonable advice, but more applicable to pistol cartridges with slow burning rate powders (2400, H110, W296, etc.) than the .458 Win Mag.
The .458 Win Mag runs on rifle powders. Powders in the medium burn rate range work best. IMR 3031, 4064, 4320, and 4895 are suitable, as are w748 and some others. Slower powders, while ideal for the other big magnum cases, don't perform well in the .458, and anything faster than IMR 4198 should be relegated to reduced loads.
Proper neck tension alone is enough to ensure reliable ignition and full pressure performance. Factory rounds are crimped so that the bullet doesn't get moved back into the case from being battered by recoil in the magazine. With a single shot, this is not a consideration.
Now, with all that being said, I do FL size my .458 brass. There's simply no reason for me not to. There is no shoulder to be "blown forward" on firing or to be "bumped back" during resizing. So the brass is not being "worked" the same way a bottle necked case is. SO sizing is simple, FL all the way in works just fine and has not given me any problems. (do use lube!!!
)
I have made some of the 500gr elephant loads, but mostly I use 400gr cast slugs pushed to the speed of 45-90 /.45-120s and while I have pushed the 400gr jacketed to over 2100fps I find the recoil a bit more than fun for casual shooting and more than needed for hunting anything in North America.
And, while I'm on that subject, pay attention to WHAT bullet you are using and what speeds your pushing it to. The Speer 400gr flat nose is built for the .45-70, and the .458 can push it much faster than design intent. Max loads in the .458 can push that bullet to 2400fps which is too fast. I've driven it to 2100fps, and that is too fast. At that speed the bullet expands...violently, almost explosively, acting just like a varmint bullet, literally blowing up on the first solid thing it hits. Not a good choice for game at that speed. The Hornady 350gr RN is constructed differently and will give proper controlled expansion at speeds up to 2200fps, I don't have personal experience with what it will do when driven faster, sorry.
Get a set of dies for your .458 Win. You can do a neck size "work around" using .45-70 dies, adjusted to the .458 length, but I wouldn't bother. Last time I checked, .458 Win dies were "standard" rifle dies and cost the same as all the others, not a custom order thing. Get a set, and you'll have FL size capability or neck size, which ever you choose.
Good luck, and if there's anything else, feel free to ask.
Its a good round, and versatile with proper loads.
Standard primers will light off IMR powder loads just fine, if you're using ball powder magnums will probably be better, and don't hurt anything if you're using IMR powders, either. At least, that is my experience.
Welcome to TFL!!
First question, do you have a set of dies for your .458 Win Mag?
IF not, get some. I have RCBS and recommend them, though I'm sure Lyman or some others would be fine as well. I don't like Lee dies, personal thing, they work, but I won't recommend them.
As to all those who gave well intentioned advice about neck sizing and crimp, do any of you own /load for the .458 Win or Ruger single shot rifles???
I ask because what is often sound advice for bottle neck cases and repeating rifles may not apply or apply the same way with a shoulderless case in a single shot rifle.
The .458 (and the .45-70) and some other "straight" rifle cases look straight but are actually not straight cylinders, there is a taper from the case mouth to the base, which is several thousandths larger than the mouth. They are "straight" in that there is no case shoulder, not that they are one constant diameter from mouth to case head.
I don't think this applies to the OP's rifle. It's a single shot Ruger No.1, feeding is by hand, there is no magazine to feed from. Also, since there is no magazine holding rounds subject to recoil, a crimp to keep the bullets in place is not needed.
It is true, there is .001" difference in the case mouth spec. But, in practical terms, its not going to matter. Because the .458 is loaded just like a straight pistol case. Sizing the mouth down an extra .001" is no big deal, because the expander stem will ensure correct inside neck diameter, and add a case mouth flare. And the flare will be removed by proper adjustment of the seating die.
Again, reasonable advice, but more applicable to pistol cartridges with slow burning rate powders (2400, H110, W296, etc.) than the .458 Win Mag.
The .458 Win Mag runs on rifle powders. Powders in the medium burn rate range work best. IMR 3031, 4064, 4320, and 4895 are suitable, as are w748 and some others. Slower powders, while ideal for the other big magnum cases, don't perform well in the .458, and anything faster than IMR 4198 should be relegated to reduced loads.
Proper neck tension alone is enough to ensure reliable ignition and full pressure performance. Factory rounds are crimped so that the bullet doesn't get moved back into the case from being battered by recoil in the magazine. With a single shot, this is not a consideration.
Now, with all that being said, I do FL size my .458 brass. There's simply no reason for me not to. There is no shoulder to be "blown forward" on firing or to be "bumped back" during resizing. So the brass is not being "worked" the same way a bottle necked case is. SO sizing is simple, FL all the way in works just fine and has not given me any problems. (do use lube!!!
)I have made some of the 500gr elephant loads, but mostly I use 400gr cast slugs pushed to the speed of 45-90 /.45-120s and while I have pushed the 400gr jacketed to over 2100fps I find the recoil a bit more than fun for casual shooting and more than needed for hunting anything in North America.
And, while I'm on that subject, pay attention to WHAT bullet you are using and what speeds your pushing it to. The Speer 400gr flat nose is built for the .45-70, and the .458 can push it much faster than design intent. Max loads in the .458 can push that bullet to 2400fps which is too fast. I've driven it to 2100fps, and that is too fast. At that speed the bullet expands...violently, almost explosively, acting just like a varmint bullet, literally blowing up on the first solid thing it hits. Not a good choice for game at that speed. The Hornady 350gr RN is constructed differently and will give proper controlled expansion at speeds up to 2200fps, I don't have personal experience with what it will do when driven faster, sorry.
Get a set of dies for your .458 Win. You can do a neck size "work around" using .45-70 dies, adjusted to the .458 length, but I wouldn't bother. Last time I checked, .458 Win dies were "standard" rifle dies and cost the same as all the others, not a custom order thing. Get a set, and you'll have FL size capability or neck size, which ever you choose.
Good luck, and if there's anything else, feel free to ask.
Its a good round, and versatile with proper loads.
Standard primers will light off IMR powder loads just fine, if you're using ball powder magnums will probably be better, and don't hurt anything if you're using IMR powders, either. At least, that is my experience.
Last edited by a moderator:
midway has a 3 die set for RCBS for $57.99, not a bad deal https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011444424?pid=541779
Redding is running 82.99
Hornady come in at 59.99
I am partial to hornady myself. could not stand the slotted thread/ nut bullet seating adjustment on RCBS. But they are all good quality dies. and Hornady offers an add on micrometer seating stem for an extra $38.99, without having to buy a dedicated micrometer die.
Redding is running 82.99
Hornady come in at 59.99
I am partial to hornady myself. could not stand the slotted thread/ nut bullet seating adjustment on RCBS. But they are all good quality dies. and Hornady offers an add on micrometer seating stem for an extra $38.99, without having to buy a dedicated micrometer die.
Classic Lyman 457193/405 and 457122/330 Gould to start (Cast #2)
Speer Classic 350 & 400 FNs to start.
Need crimp.
500gr Jacketed and Cast 535gr Postell-type and/or Paul Jones 540gr Creedmoor -- coupla Hochs and RCBs 500s+ thrown in there -- ?
No problem
(I grant you I rarely load the <500s at full power. More between 1886 and "Ruger-rated" 45-70 levels)
No need to beat the bejeezuz outta the shooter -- ceases being fun.
Speer Classic 350 & 400 FNs to start.
Need crimp.
500gr Jacketed and Cast 535gr Postell-type and/or Paul Jones 540gr Creedmoor -- coupla Hochs and RCBs 500s+ thrown in there -- ?
No problem
(I grant you I rarely load the <500s at full power. More between 1886 and "Ruger-rated" 45-70 levels)
No need to beat the bejeezuz outta the shooter -- ceases being fun.
Last edited:
"As to all those who gave well intentioned advice about neck sizing and crimp, do any of you own /load for the .458 Win or Ruger single shot rifles???
Yes, 21 Ruger #1s in various chamberings, ranging from .22 Hornet to .416 Rigby. Even have a .404 Jeffery.
I've never bothered to crimp any loads used for the Ruger rifle not for a Browning B78 in 30-06. Never had one in .458 Win. Mag. but have one in 45-70 which I shoot cast in exclusively. Usually the Lyman 457122/330 Gould bullet which is very accurate in my rifle. Not sure what I'll use for a propellent since they dropped SR4759. I might take a look at 5744 as it works nicely in the 30-06 Browning with 225 gr. cast bullets. I also have a Lyman 300 gr. bullet that just plain sucks. I've tried different alloys. "beagling" the mold but just can't get a bullet fat enough to properly take the rifling and yes, I have even tried pure lead and the holy black to see if I could get the bullets to bump up. They never did.
Probably my three favorites in the #1 are the 1A in 7x57, #1S in .300 Win. Mag and a #1 H in .375 H&H. The .375 is a lot of fun running a 270 gr. RCBS #37-250-FN cast bullet over about 53.0 gr. H4350. Velocity is about 2100 FPS give or take and recoil about like a heavy 30-06 load with 220 gr. bullets. It's a huntable load. Note that even that one never used a crimp. Just isn't any need in a single shot
I wish the moving company hadn't lost some stuff back in 1979 when we move from Nevada to Arizona. I had a fair amount of data for a .458 as I had one built up back around 1976/7 on a 1903A3 Springfield. Mostly cast bullet stuff with 300, 330, 400 and a 500 gr. Lee with a longer nose than what they sell today. IMR3031 worked quite well with those bullet with the exception of that 300 gr. Lyman mentioned earlier. I gave that rifle to a good friend shortly before the move south.
Paul B.
Yes, 21 Ruger #1s in various chamberings, ranging from .22 Hornet to .416 Rigby. Even have a .404 Jeffery.
I've never bothered to crimp any loads used for the Ruger rifle not for a Browning B78 in 30-06. Never had one in .458 Win. Mag. but have one in 45-70 which I shoot cast in exclusively. Usually the Lyman 457122/330 Gould bullet which is very accurate in my rifle. Not sure what I'll use for a propellent since they dropped SR4759. I might take a look at 5744 as it works nicely in the 30-06 Browning with 225 gr. cast bullets. I also have a Lyman 300 gr. bullet that just plain sucks. I've tried different alloys. "beagling" the mold but just can't get a bullet fat enough to properly take the rifling and yes, I have even tried pure lead and the holy black to see if I could get the bullets to bump up. They never did.
Probably my three favorites in the #1 are the 1A in 7x57, #1S in .300 Win. Mag and a #1 H in .375 H&H. The .375 is a lot of fun running a 270 gr. RCBS #37-250-FN cast bullet over about 53.0 gr. H4350. Velocity is about 2100 FPS give or take and recoil about like a heavy 30-06 load with 220 gr. bullets. It's a huntable load. Note that even that one never used a crimp. Just isn't any need in a single shot
I wish the moving company hadn't lost some stuff back in 1979 when we move from Nevada to Arizona. I had a fair amount of data for a .458 as I had one built up back around 1976/7 on a 1903A3 Springfield. Mostly cast bullet stuff with 300, 330, 400 and a 500 gr. Lee with a longer nose than what they sell today. IMR3031 worked quite well with those bullet with the exception of that 300 gr. Lyman mentioned earlier. I gave that rifle to a good friend shortly before the move south.
Paul B.
5744 (if you can find it these days) is still your friend
3031 is also OK w/ the Gould
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471
3031 is also OK w/ the Gould
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471
This place may make neck die for 458Win
https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/sizing/lbns
I have 3-#1 and one has factory trigger other 2 have Kepplinger single set triggers.
https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/sizing/lbns
I have 3-#1 and one has factory trigger other 2 have Kepplinger single set triggers.