Singer WWII 1911 45 ACP

Bucksnort1

New member
Sometime around 1988, I met a World War II B-17 pilot who was able to sneak his Singer 1911 into the country after completing 25 missions over Germany and France. He wanted to sell it to me.

There were two things wrong with this scenario. First, he had no clue as to its value so I showed him the latest Blue Book of Gun Values which listed it at around $5,000. Second, I could not have afforded the gun.

I've not researched the value in today's market.
 
More info... Was he asking more than it was worth? Was he offering it for way less?

Next... This was nearly 30 years ago. Why does it matter now?
 
One sold at auction for $70,000, six years ago.
There are so few, and they change hands so rarely, the market adjusts each time one is sold.
 
5whiskey,

Are you always this rude? Perhaps others would be interested in this story, you know, someone with a personality and an interest in Singer 1911s. I didn't tell the whole story about how he smuggled it out of England, which I won't. Where is it written in this forum that interesting stories can't be told?

He had no idea what it was worth. He offered to sell.
 
"Where is it written in this forum that interesting stories can't be told?"

In the sentence right before that one? Is this a trick question?
 
wait, was a Singer listed 5000 in 2013? I think more like 10 times that. But always on condition in bluebook. You can't touch one any condition for less than 50 K I think.
 
I had a Remington UMC made 1917 and it was shooter grade. Low end in blue book, I bought about 8 bills and sold for about same. But that was over 10 years ago.
Since that prices have exploded, no idea why. These are still old guns, that usually can't work as well as anything new. But I liked them and many still do I guess.
It was a time collecting was fun and not so expensive. Rick B on your end quote I will also stop running off at mouth. But I also had a 1916 Commercial and a 1968 Gold Cup which I loved.
 
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Bucksnort1 said:
I didn't tell the whole story about how he smuggled it out of England, which I won't. Where is it written in this forum that interesting stories can't be told?
Respectfully, I think we're mostly all interested in a good story. But you didn't tell us the interesting part of the story, and apparently you don't intend to. I don't understand your complaint about not being allowed to tell a story you don't intent to tell anyway.

The fact that you declined an opportunity to buy a pistol is not a story. A WW2 aviator smuggling a Singer M1911A1 out of England and bringing it home after the war IS a story.
 
11969Colt,

Regarding value, I'm just telling it like it was listed in the Blue Book at about $5k. My thinking is, some of you might be interested in what the value was at that time. If I had been able to buy the gun, I would not have purchased it and would have told him to pass it down to his children now that he knows the value and the rarity of the pistol.

Here is the smuggling story with a bit more information about his experiences in the B-17.

His call sign was Bird Dog. If I could give his name, you would understand the call sign. He was shot down three times. Two of those times, he made it back to England and made successful crash landings. The third time, they were over either France or Belgium. I round came through the underside of the aircraft and wounded him in the area around his crotch. He had to make an emergency landing so he looked around for a suitable field and spotted an airfield. After coming to a stop, they saw vehicles coming toward them at a high rate of speed. He told his crew to be prepared to be prisoners of war. What they didn't know is the Americans had captured the field couple of days earlier.

His crew know how much he loved his 1911 so they purchased white handles (don't recall the material) and had "Bird Dog" engraved. He wanted to take this handgun home but didn't know how to do it so he devised a plan where he would attach the gun to one leg with the rear of the handle pressed tightly against his crotch and the barrel pointing down. He then taped it with white medical tape to his leg. He said it was very uncomfortable walking and sitting on the flight back to the U.S.

At some point, they were frisked for contraband but I don't recall whether it was in England or the U.S. During the frisking, he panicked while the frisker was slowly moving up his leg so he jumped back slightly, acting as if he was embarrassed then asked the frisker to not touch him there and that's how he smuggled the gun home.
 
Cool story!
Unfortunately, the engraving on the gun might significantly lower it's value to a collector. But, a gun like that should remain in the family, not sold.

Jim
 
If I could buy a singer 1911 for $5000 I'd jump on it.
However if memory serves none of the 500 singers made were ever actually issued so his story is probably a bit suspect.
Also be very careful buying a singer, of the 500 made I believe something like 2000 have been found. :D
 
flphotog,

Go to site, the truth about guns.com. On this site they state the 500 Singer guns were issued to Air Force personnel. You can do what you want with this.

I believe Bird Dog was telling the truth.
 
I believe a lot of 1911s and similar souvenirs made it back. My dad had one but I think he sold it for the $. If only I would have asked more questions about the war. I think most of our fathers just didn't want to talk about it much.
 
The Blue Book of Gun Values gives averages of prices from all over the U.S. with no regard for local supply and demand. Isn't a great place for values. Anyway, the good news if that nobody is looking for USAAF firearms stolen 70 some years ago. snicker. Mind you, 1988 isn't exactly yesterday either.
Sold an issue(Remington and something else hybrid) .45 35 years ago for $300Cdn. Saw one on-line about 20 years ago at $2500. Been crying ever since.
"...our fathers just didn't want to talk about it much..." Yep. I've never once met a guy who saw combat who would talk about it. They'd tell you about the drinking and carrying on that happened(like my da's goose. RCEMEs) but they clam up completely if anybody asks the really stupid questions. Even if they'd been boozing for hours.
"...frisked for contraband..." Happened to our guys on the dock in Halifax. Troopies were told they'd be charged and thrown in prison. Halifax harbour got a bit shallower and there was a bit pile of stuff on the dock.
 
I believe the greater issue with BB of gun values is that the data is a year old when it is published. The market has been really erratic the last decade and they simply can't keep pace.
Completed auctions on Gunbroker is also a national source, is said to be reliable by most, but is immediately up to date.
 
War stories can be true, i worked sentry dogs in Korea (1959) and received a 1911 in beautiful condition from a rotating soldier with the explaination the pistol was better than our issue .45's so i was to pass it on to my relieving individual (the serial number was removed). I carried it while my issue pistol languished in my footlocker when I rotated there was no replacement but another handler told me he would take it home, i was not going to try as i knew customs would lock me away for 100 years. We went through customs in Hawaii, the official asked me if i had anything to declare and then put a chalk mark on my duffel and turned to my buddy,with the smile on his face, and my .45 in his waistband. One chalk mark later and we were done....he did not even offer to give the pistol back to me:)
 
Luck of the draw. You could have gotten a customs official who hated the war, hated our military, and wanted to lock up everyone in sight for the fun of it. I ran into a few who hated civil servants who got to travel when they didn't, and went over everything.

Jim
 
You are correct, when i arrived at Kimpo Airfield in a rather tired C-46 airplane we had a check in and a corporal MP picked one guy out of the bunch and had him dump his duffel on the floor....i had a Colt .22 Scout in mine but he was happy to have only one guy's possessions scattered about. I mailed that Colt home with a Browning auto .22 I bought in the PX for cheap price.....wonder what happened to those two during my days when i would trade in an instant.
 
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