never seen it honestly, ive heard of it. what makes it inferior? just doent pass the tests?
okay, I watched three tests, not "great", but not the worst. .25 under FBI, but 100% retention and expansion over .64-.69, denim plugging did not stop the expansion. will it work, of course, and it works better than MOST budget JHP's(think Privi HP, UMC HP's, the way too slow for weight Federal Hi-Shok that will NOT expand through single denim) . The bullet design, especially the interior looks almost identical to 9m hydra-shok(another design that needs retired).
well, they work "okay".... decent velocity, somewhat sub-par penetration, but great expansion and perfect retention(anomaly for non-bonded lead-swaged and seems to fare well against clogging. I'll bet the market stays where it's at because folks that have been using it for 5 decades sometimes don't like to change. the nickel coating may be attractive to new shooters, I can only assume anyhow, and for folks that aren't gun-nuts like us see the Winchester name recognition and assume quality. for those superficial reasons, I bet they still sell pretty good, plus they appear to come in boxes of 50 instead of twenty which is desirable. they seem like VERY good rounds in the .380 and possibly magnum calibers as well, so they probably make the 9mm to complete the line because they are set up for it already, and if I have a 357mag that loves SilverTips, I may just run in and grab a box for my 9mm as well, not knowing or caring if one gets better this or better than in a gel block...(not me by the ay, I am a ballistics junky to the core), I am just very understanding to the average shooters desires and thought processes, and a lot of shooter don't concern themselves with every technical aspect of a bullet they are probably never going to use, and if they do, it'll be less than ten yards out with god-only-knows how many rounds in their HD pistol mag
but I agree with your assessment, it should be AT LEAST 20-25% less, since it seems to perform roundabouts 20% less than a modern premium. BUT.....obviously it's profitable at a price point that matches modern loadings, or they would have lowered the price by now.....right? so obviously, they have no reason to retire the cartridge or lower the price.
YET. good for consumers, we know get to file through seemingly endless tests of particular bullet designs, and I think as the "older" crowd that doesn't keep up with the YouTubing professional ballisticians start to go way of the Dodo, in turn we will see the market slowly change.
BUT.....how many times a week do you hear....I carry 124-147gr Gold-Dots, people spout it out like it's great ammo, it's not, it's practically terrible in 9mm, the 115's are "somewhat okay", but every other weigt is horrid(lets give gold-dot credit for the G2 9mm that ONLY works from a 6" + barrel). And so we are comparing to "modern loadings" as a reason for cost versus and "old and crusty" design that's blamed for everything that went wrong in 1986. I would much rather talk about "modern" loadings that hold an even higher price point and are even WORSE than the silver-tip. what is more modern than Sig Sauer
ELITE PERFORMANCE V-CROWN.....wow, that sounds like some amazing stuff, Sig Sauer....elite....v-crown?....wow....that must be like.....well, maybe the worst freakin ammo ever made. Darn, at least we have the very "modern" bullet design of the Remington
GOLDEN SABREH-P-J....now that sounds like a modern bullet I can get behind. I mean it has a "high-performance-jacket" folks, can't get better than that, well maybe if they added a V-crown as well...oops, these modern bullets are an absolute failure, geesh, hopefully they will add a BLACK-BELT soon and THEN it could be a true 9mm man-stopper, they might wanna get them to feed reliably someday too, IMO. what about Buffalo Bore, they are just known for hyper performing ammunition, so their 115 +p has gotta be great, yup...like 2 out 10 actually expand and even less when denim is involved, they appear to be using Nosler HP's and they clearly just don't work. there are plenty more I could talk about of course. I think you get my point, these are very pricey rounds that just plain SUCK. the OP's gripe about Silvertips, although based in some fact, are better performers than most all of these uber "modern" loadings that cost more. i'll take an old silver-tip over all of these before mentioned bullets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xDipPzgK-4
I put the mag-tech lead guardians on par with the silver-tips, not the best, but gets it done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDJ5WyMaFk&index=39&list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i
luckily though, we actually do have some great options in 9mm, but not many if you really think about it. CorBon Lead-Free DPX appears to be unmatched at consistently perfect expansion/15" penetration, but man it's expensive. HST seems to stand out as a winner, PDX1 Bonded are very decent, 147gr Ranger-T's are about perfect in my book and Hornady has very affordable, consistent, high expansion with "okay" penetration(but IMO the most accurate of them all). Surely I am leaving some actual performers out, but it's like 5 am or so. all I am saying is, "modern" means nothing to me, lets not even get started on HPR BLACK OP'S, HALO'S, LIBERTY, DRT, EXTREME NITRILLIUM CRAP, FANGFACE??? and all that stuff. I just think in this limited market of actually useful 9mm options, which are all VERY pricey, I don't think the 1-2" leg-up that they get on some of the older designs are really going to make a noticeable difference at 3am. I feel 10,000% comfortable with affordable Hornady's even though the HST may give me a couple hundredths of an inch of perm cavity and another inch of penetration. I don't even consider XTP to be a truly "modern" design, but it's accurate and consistent and widely available. you guys can pay the 3$ a bullet for the Barnes if you want, they are surely fantastic bullets, but I think if you and I shot an intruder with 3 rounds in the exact same places, me rocking the Hornady and you with your "modern" turned copper HP's on CNC'd Chaos bullets, and I bet anything we are both going to get indistinguishable results when the autopsy gets done.
We are talking about 9 millimeters for christ's sake, I believe loading differences and profiles can make dramatic differences on ammo used to kill/wound out to 300 yards plus, but I think ANY 9mm with good velocity and a working expanding hollow nose that is even slightly resistant to clogging are going to b one in the same, whether one gets 13.75" or 15" of penetration, I think the average defensive encounter is going to be well covered with either bullet, and may be just as well served with a box of FMJ's in the real world. I think we take all of this way too far. which is cool, that's what the hobby is about and that's why we try to learn everything we can about every new projectile on the market....but that's us, we are a strange bunch. i'd say the other 80% of 9mm pistol owners walk into their sporting goods store and grab a "middle" priced box of hollow-points and never think twice about dissecting the bullet and studying the nuances between it and the box that was next to it. the bullets will cost what people are willing to pay for it, no matter what.....
) the werewolves (and vampires) would just ignore them.
