Silly (?) question on subsonic
- Thread starter Lavan
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Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. 147 gr bullets are very heavy for 9mm and as a result the "standard" velocity is the "subsonic" at around 900 to 975 ft/sec. The only other choice that I'm aware of is Plus P Cor*Bon, which is about 1050 ft/sec or so. "Subsonic" is a buzz word that caught on when folks decided to go to a heavy bullet to increase penetration. Frankly, I don't subscribe to this theory as ballistically you're winding up with a Plus P .38 Spec. I much prefer the fast 115 and 124 gr bullets.
As a compromise, you might consider the Triton 124 gr +P JHP which uses a Hornady XTP. Thus, you get in excess of 1250 ft/sec with a bullet that will hold together for better penetration than the explosive 115 gr JHPs. On animals, I've noted that the faster rounds appear to be more "effective." Of course, some will disagree and have good points for their arguments. I suspect that either would do the trick with placement, but I will stay with the higher velocity rounds.
Best and good luck.
As a compromise, you might consider the Triton 124 gr +P JHP which uses a Hornady XTP. Thus, you get in excess of 1250 ft/sec with a bullet that will hold together for better penetration than the explosive 115 gr JHPs. On animals, I've noted that the faster rounds appear to be more "effective." Of course, some will disagree and have good points for their arguments. I suspect that either would do the trick with placement, but I will stay with the higher velocity rounds.
Best and good luck.
Gunslinger
Moderator
FWIW, the speed of sound (sonic) is 1088 fps.
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Gunslinger
We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
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Gunslinger
We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
Heavy bullet 147gr 9mm loads were originally
developed for special operations forces to
use in suppressed weapons, primarily the
MP-5 SD. A standard 9mm is supersonic and
will still cause a "crack" even when fired
in suppressed weapons. The 900fps versions
eiliminate this problem, making the piece
very quiet when fired.
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Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
developed for special operations forces to
use in suppressed weapons, primarily the
MP-5 SD. A standard 9mm is supersonic and
will still cause a "crack" even when fired
in suppressed weapons. The 900fps versions
eiliminate this problem, making the piece
very quiet when fired.
------------------
Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
The performance of the subsonic 9mm has pretty well been pooh poohed in light of its less then stellar performance on the street. Why do you think the FBI and other agencies are moving away form this caliber so rapidly? Presently the trend is moving away from the 147 grain round and from the 9mm in general since the 10 round limit. Why do you think the .40SW and the .357sig have become so popular along with the continued popularity of the .45 cal? A few years ago the .45 was being written off in light of the high capacity wondernines. Now it is more popular then ever. If there is trend in the 9mm, it is to the lighter, faster bullet. By the way gunslinger, the speed of sound varies with altitude, air density, and temperature, although I can accept your figure as an approximate. 
Beretta Boy
New member
The 10 round limit does not affect LEO's... They can still own, buy and sell high capacity round magazines... Therefore, I doubt that would be a reason for an agency to move from 9mm to a larger caliber.
Law enforcement procurement is subject to the same human tendencies that rule us all; "Gotta' have what's new what's hot" so at least the 40 S&W and 357 SIG seem to give good results.
9mm=115gJHP+P+ / 40S&W=135gJHP / 357Mag/SIG=125gJHP / 45ACP=230gJHP
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
9mm=115gJHP+P+ / 40S&W=135gJHP / 357Mag/SIG=125gJHP / 45ACP=230gJHP
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
Interesting to note the many moving away from the "subsonic" rounds. But why did they go there in the first place. The term became a good marketing tool that "sounded cool." It is in reality a latin word and when translated means "wimpy."
If you handed a shooter a .38 special with a 148 grain TARGET load at about 850 fps they'd laugh you out of town. Call it "subsonic" and it will fly off the shelf.
If you handed a shooter a .38 special with a 148 grain TARGET load at about 850 fps they'd laugh you out of town. Call it "subsonic" and it will fly off the shelf.
Why the trend? For 9mm JHPs they provide better penetration than the lighter-faster bullets. Sub-sonic just means slower than the speed of sound (which, of course, varies with altitude, etc. as has been pointed out).
The only concerns anyone should have w/ regard to speed is whether or not it is sufficient to open up a JHP and provide adequate penetration in the target. Beyond that (for any standard factory loads) its just another buzz-word for us to argue about.
See the excellent articles at the "Wound Ballistics" link below. You might be surprised how many things we often take for granted turn out not to be true.
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If you value your right to keep and bear arms, support Citizens Of America -- they're doing it right!
Wound Ballistics is the study of effects on the body produced by penetrating projectiles.
Great Daily Commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective.
Some fascinating insights into the current market mania from the Prudent Bear fund.
The only concerns anyone should have w/ regard to speed is whether or not it is sufficient to open up a JHP and provide adequate penetration in the target. Beyond that (for any standard factory loads) its just another buzz-word for us to argue about.
See the excellent articles at the "Wound Ballistics" link below. You might be surprised how many things we often take for granted turn out not to be true.
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If you value your right to keep and bear arms, support Citizens Of America -- they're doing it right!
Wound Ballistics is the study of effects on the body produced by penetrating projectiles.
Great Daily Commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective.
Some fascinating insights into the current market mania from the Prudent Bear fund.
A couple of years ago, a mailing that I got from one of the ammo distributors showed Winchester white box .45 acp 230g FMJ on sale for about $15/box (50), while it showed Winchester SubSonic .45 acp 230g FMJ for "only" $20, down from $25.99!!! What a deal, right??? Except that there never was a 230 FMJ loaded by Winchester that was supersonic out of a pistol. MAYBE a Camp Carbine or a Thompson would get up to 1100 fps, but that's unlikely.
Winchester was selling the same load or even slightly downloaded cartridges, for $5 more per box, and calling it Sale-Priced.
Marketing's amazing!
Winchester was selling the same load or even slightly downloaded cartridges, for $5 more per box, and calling it Sale-Priced.
Marketing's amazing!