Green Lantern
New member
Never used a sight ever. Red dot? something else?
Looking for advice on what would be simple to use.
Thanks in advance.
Looking for advice on what would be simple to use.
Thanks in advance.
Sights
- Thread starter Green Lantern
- Start date
Deaf Smith
New member
You mean an optical sight? Surely you have used iron sights before.
Deaf
Deaf
Green Lantern
New member
Using iron sights.
Just getting an idea of direction on which sight to choose. Optical
I know, I'm the new guy to guns just this year and I have a lot to learn.
Again I add, to have mercy on my stupidity.
Just getting an idea of direction on which sight to choose. Optical
I know, I'm the new guy to guns just this year and I have a lot to learn.
Again I add, to have mercy on my stupidity.
Deaf Smith
New member
There is no stupidity in your question. We all have ignorance in various areas (and that very much includes me.)
Best 'iron' sights are aperture sights (commonly called 'peep' sights.)
Skinner, Ashley, Marbles, Williams, and Lyman make them.
My Marlin Texan has Skinners while my Marlin 45/70 SLB has Ashley's.
My SLB looks like this one.
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/site.../public/70478_1895SBL_Right.png?itok=4GKhYkPC
Here is some info on sights.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_sights.htm
http://ataleoftwothirties.com/?page_id=502
Deaf
Best 'iron' sights are aperture sights (commonly called 'peep' sights.)
Skinner, Ashley, Marbles, Williams, and Lyman make them.
My Marlin Texan has Skinners while my Marlin 45/70 SLB has Ashley's.
My SLB looks like this one.
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/site.../public/70478_1895SBL_Right.png?itok=4GKhYkPC
Here is some info on sights.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_sights.htm
http://ataleoftwothirties.com/?page_id=502
Deaf
"...which sight to choose..." For what purpose? What rifle? Chambering makes no difference.
Red dots tend to have 2 or 3 MOA dots. That'll completely cover the black on a standard sighting in target at 100 yards.
Peep sights(think military) remove the third thing your eye cannot focus on anyway from the sight picture. Must faster to use than the typical crappy factory irons most rifles have. If they have sights at all.
Scopes will allow you to see the target better and nothing else. They do not make a rifle that doesn't shoot well with iron sights more accurate.
Red dots tend to have 2 or 3 MOA dots. That'll completely cover the black on a standard sighting in target at 100 yards.
Peep sights(think military) remove the third thing your eye cannot focus on anyway from the sight picture. Must faster to use than the typical crappy factory irons most rifles have. If they have sights at all.
Scopes will allow you to see the target better and nothing else. They do not make a rifle that doesn't shoot well with iron sights more accurate.
Optics have lenses
"Usually" when folks talk about optics there are lenses involves. In my early hunting years, I shot "open" sights but now turn mostly to optics. RedDots similar devices are usually 1-X or no magnification. By my measure, RedDots are a natural way of sighting. ......
Be Safe !!!
Quit that !!! There isn't one single soul, in this forum, that is not on "his" learning curve and we all need help on learning new things. ....
"Usually" when folks talk about optics there are lenses involves. In my early hunting years, I shot "open" sights but now turn mostly to optics. RedDots similar devices are usually 1-X or no magnification. By my measure, RedDots are a natural way of sighting. ......
Be Safe !!!
Green Lantern
New member
Thanks for the caring comments.
I just have 2 rifles right now.
A Beretta ARX 160 in 22lr. Has good "ghost ring" (term?) sights, but to "see the target" at 100 yards is tough. Some say a 22 at 100 is pressing it. I can hit a standard human cardboard (term?) 40% of the time.
The other is a Hi-point 995ts again using the factory sights. 75% target hit at 100. It was the first time I shot both at that distance.
Wanting to expand on out to 200 yards. Sounding maybe like a scope? Maybe?
Edit: forgot to add, that's shooting without a bi-pod. Just standing with the gun.
I just have 2 rifles right now.
A Beretta ARX 160 in 22lr. Has good "ghost ring" (term?) sights, but to "see the target" at 100 yards is tough. Some say a 22 at 100 is pressing it. I can hit a standard human cardboard (term?) 40% of the time.
The other is a Hi-point 995ts again using the factory sights. 75% target hit at 100. It was the first time I shot both at that distance.
Wanting to expand on out to 200 yards. Sounding maybe like a scope? Maybe?
Edit: forgot to add, that's shooting without a bi-pod. Just standing with the gun.
Nothing wrong with shooting standing,but its challenging.
You might not shoot all that much better with a $2000 scope if you are wobbling and weaving and yanking the trigger.
Not making any claims myself,but there are Blind Old Guys who can hit a pop can 40% of the time at 100 yds standing with a muzzleloader or ww2 battle rifle with iron sights.
A fair number might hit a pop can once or twice out of a magazine with an old Colt Woodsman handgun 22 with iron sights.
You do what makes you happy,but I'll suggest that by far,the greatest gains will come from developing your marksmanship skills.
There is more to it than buying equiptment.
Its reasonable to believe that by practicing the marksmanship fundamentals,a regular guy can get to where with iron sights he/she can hit a paper plate standing at 100 yds with iron sights 80 % of the time or better.
Deer hunters with 30-30 lever guns have been doing it for 120 years or so.You can,too.
Or you can look for instant pudding.
Having said that,something like a 4X scope is nice on a 22 for smaller targets.
You might not shoot all that much better with a $2000 scope if you are wobbling and weaving and yanking the trigger.
Not making any claims myself,but there are Blind Old Guys who can hit a pop can 40% of the time at 100 yds standing with a muzzleloader or ww2 battle rifle with iron sights.
A fair number might hit a pop can once or twice out of a magazine with an old Colt Woodsman handgun 22 with iron sights.
You do what makes you happy,but I'll suggest that by far,the greatest gains will come from developing your marksmanship skills.
There is more to it than buying equiptment.
Its reasonable to believe that by practicing the marksmanship fundamentals,a regular guy can get to where with iron sights he/she can hit a paper plate standing at 100 yds with iron sights 80 % of the time or better.
Deer hunters with 30-30 lever guns have been doing it for 120 years or so.You can,too.
Or you can look for instant pudding.
Having said that,something like a 4X scope is nice on a 22 for smaller targets.
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If you are having trouble seeing targets of reasonable size (say, 4-6in or bigger at 100yds), it's not the rifle! If so, optics are required, be that glasses or a scope that has good adjustments for focus. (I'd recommend the glasses!)
Now, if it isn't your eyesight that is the issue, it depends on the gun and your intended use. Red-dots are good for closer-in, faster shooting. High-power scopes are good for tiny groups or targets at long distance. (They don't make the rifle more accurate, they just let you see exactly where you are aiming.)
Mid-power scopes are good for some speed and some distance.
Now, if it isn't your eyesight that is the issue, it depends on the gun and your intended use. Red-dots are good for closer-in, faster shooting. High-power scopes are good for tiny groups or targets at long distance. (They don't make the rifle more accurate, they just let you see exactly where you are aiming.)
Mid-power scopes are good for some speed and some distance.
Shooting 22LR at 200 yards is a challenge.
I ran some numbers a while back, At sea level, a 22LR Federal 40gr Match bullet at 1080 FPS in a 10 MPH full value wind has about 3.9 MOA of wind at 100 yards, which is roughly the same as my 6.5-06 Long Range rig at 625 yards (140AMAX @ 2818 FPS). At 200 yards it has about 9 min, which matches my 6.5 at about 1200 yards.
I haven't run the numbers, but I don't think 9mm Luger would be much better, and Hi-Point's are not to my knowledge known for their pin-point accuracy.
I am definitely not the guy whose first advice is to buy a new gun, but if you want to start shooting and hitting things at 200 yards, you should start shopping, probably for a .223 something. You can build a acceptably accurate AR for under $500.
Forgot to mention, for precise use of iron sights, the type of target you are using can make a difference, as well as what sight picture you use.
I posted some good targets for iron sights here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5135589&postcount=25
It is a roughly 6 MOA aiming black, and with traditional military type peep sights (a rear aperture close to your eye and a post front sight) using a 6 o'clock hold is the best I have found. It is much easier to aim at a small point, the bottom of the black, than trying to repeatably find the center of a 6" circle. Aim small, hit small.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia has a pretty good article on iron sights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sights
I posted some good targets for iron sights here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5135589&postcount=25
It is a roughly 6 MOA aiming black, and with traditional military type peep sights (a rear aperture close to your eye and a post front sight) using a 6 o'clock hold is the best I have found. It is much easier to aim at a small point, the bottom of the black, than trying to repeatably find the center of a 6" circle. Aim small, hit small.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia has a pretty good article on iron sights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sights
My 2 cents.
There was a guy named E.E. PATRIDGE who designed sights ,but actually asks eye doctors how do the eyes work. What a unique idea !! The Patridge sight has a square front sight and square notch. Blade and notch normally about 1/8" wide. For me they work very well on rifle or handgun.
Watch out for "peep" sights . Which one ? Target [large disc, small hole ] the common military peep [medium ring and medium hole ] and the "ghost ring" [ a very thin ring with about a 1/8" blade.
Many don't understand the ghost ring .The thin ring must be near the eye [doesn't work well for handguns] You are then hardly aware of the ring but the eye automatically centers to the eye. This is an accurate and fast sight !!
I find fiber optic sights terrible as you get one sight picture if the sight is in the shade but another if the sight is in the sun. [We proved that easily in metallic silhouette matches ] As popular as the fiber is for handgun , rifle or shotgun ,it's not a good choice. The in the sun glowing sight makes you pull down the sight so you can see the target !
Always focus on the front sight , not the target !!
There was a guy named E.E. PATRIDGE who designed sights ,but actually asks eye doctors how do the eyes work. What a unique idea !! The Patridge sight has a square front sight and square notch. Blade and notch normally about 1/8" wide. For me they work very well on rifle or handgun.
Watch out for "peep" sights . Which one ? Target [large disc, small hole ] the common military peep [medium ring and medium hole ] and the "ghost ring" [ a very thin ring with about a 1/8" blade.
Many don't understand the ghost ring .The thin ring must be near the eye [doesn't work well for handguns] You are then hardly aware of the ring but the eye automatically centers to the eye. This is an accurate and fast sight !!
I find fiber optic sights terrible as you get one sight picture if the sight is in the shade but another if the sight is in the sun. [We proved that easily in metallic silhouette matches ] As popular as the fiber is for handgun , rifle or shotgun ,it's not a good choice. The in the sun glowing sight makes you pull down the sight so you can see the target !
Always focus on the front sight , not the target !!
I've used both red and green "dot" sights. I actually prefer green for most uses as it doesn't seem to flare or dominate the sight picture as much as red will. That said, all my current sights are red since that's the biggest market offering.
As noted, if "seeing the target" is the problem, a dot sight isn't the answer. I'm at the point of having problems aligning pistol sights so the dot IS the answer and it does extremely well.
As noted, if "seeing the target" is the problem, a dot sight isn't the answer. I'm at the point of having problems aligning pistol sights so the dot IS the answer and it does extremely well.