Sights

H

Harry Bonar

New member
Gentlemen:
We, here on the forum get suggestions for different sights. We can get nite-sights of all comfigurations, peep sights, open sights, holographic sights and "red-dot" sights!

A large grey male cat stalked and attacked my wifes small male cat. I saw it stalk the cat. I had just put an "Ultradot" red-dot sight on my 10-22 and sighted it in.

They ran and I coldn't get the "red-dot" (or any other scope sight on the cat - I was too busy with the "field of view issue."

I'm here to tell you all a fact: There is nothing better on this earth than a well regulated set of open sights for quick game shooting, either domestic or dangerous game. Were I an african hunter, or for the great bears (even out to the 200 yard limit) I would revise my old ideas of scoping everything I have to putting a GOOD set of open sights on my 416 Taylor, my 9.3X62, etc!
Scopes, scopes, scopes - I killed more groundhogs with a single shot Remington 22LR single shot than with all my fancy scoped "varmit" rifles.
We need to go back to the fine open sights we found on the old muzzle-loaders and get done with the abortions like the "short mags" and the 24 power varmit scopes, learn how to shoot a good set of reciever and open sights and kill game.
Shooters come in my shop and tell me of 500 yard and 800 yard shots on groundhoge and past 300 yards the common shooter couldn't his a flock of circuis tents! Those long shots were probably more like 75 yards!
I just got taught a lesson!
Harry B.
 
Harry,

I think you will have noticed Jeff Cooper is a kindred spirit. He loves the ghost ring on a long gun, and I even went through a 270 class at Gunsite with John Garand’s plain old battle site on an M1A and still won the shoot-off at the end. It is perfectly serviceable. Many top bull’s eye shooters will tell you a scope has no accuracy advantage even for target work. If the eyes are in good condition, the scope just shows up your jitters and shakes and the mirage off the grass better.

The one caveat is aging eyes. This year for the first time I noticed my unaided eyes can no longer shift from target to front sight on a pistol and still get clear focus quickly. It takes them several seconds to settle in. At least, this is so in overcast conditions. That's the purpose of glass; a single plane of focus for the target and the reticule. People wonder why Cooper likes such low power scopes for the scout concept, and wide field of view is part of the answer. The forward mounted long eye-relief design is the other part. It lets your dominant eye's peripheral vision keep working where a standard scope shuts it out. It also let’s your weak eye better see where the scope tube should point. The system works remarkably well, and I don’t expect to carry anything over 1.75X into the field ever again.

Heavy magnification is necessary for a sniper having to I.D. the target at a distance. Some special target shooting (bench rest) and varmint shooting will benefit from greater magnification, as well. But the Palma match is still shot at 1000 yards with iron sights, and regular field and bull’s eye work certainly don’t require glass or magnification. Not at all.

Nick
 
sights

You're absolutely right Nick! My eyes, at 70, are in need of some help - I shhot iron sights through my tri-focals!
Harry B.:D
 
Harry, I couldn't agree more. I am much more accurate with open sights when hunting. I too, find the limited field of view a problem with scoped rifles when tracking game. Great observation and good challange for us all.
 
Iron Sights

Harry, I agree completely coming down on the side of iron sights. I'm 66 and just had cataract surgey and I'm now waiting to get out for some irons shooting. I'm afraid some of the younger shooters would have to cancel hunts or matches if they broke their scopes.

It's a shame more factory guns don't come with decent sights. I'm sure a lot of those decisions are made by manufacturers as cost reductions. Even the iron sight folks are switching to aluminum and that too is probably for cost reduction reasons.
 
Gentlemen, I'm sorry to disagree with you. The issue is not the red dot sight or the iron sights or a scope. The issue is familiarity with the weapon and sighting system. I agree that people have moved away from some very good sight systems, but they did so because those sight systems were difficult to use, requiring lots of practice to become familiar with them. I shot smallbore match in college and military match in the USMC, and I can tell you there is not a sight system made that does not require practice to become proficient in its use. Even Jeff Cooper's opinion about the Ghost Ring system being one of the best sight systems means nothing unless you go out and practice with the weapon so equipped.
Scopes have the same issues, but people have moved away from iron sights because of the limitations of cheap iron sights found on factory rifles and the natural ease of looking at the target (as in scopes) versus looking at the sights (with iron sights). Magnification in the scopes and the overall improvement in rifles and ammunition make those 300 yard kills you seem to disapprove of a matter of very basic shooting skill. Not so with iron sights.
There are still some very good iron sight systems available on the market today, but any I can think of that are worth the money cost more than a good quality rifle scope. And the Ghost Ring system is not one of those I consider to be a good sight system.
Rather than rant about how it was the sights' fault that you could not kill a cat in your own backyard, look to improve your skills with some practice at the range or in your local forest.
 
Scorch,

I'll send my regrets right back at you, but must disagree. Getting old eyes takes away from the ability to use even intimately familiar iron sights to best advantage without assistance. Think of it as a handicap. You wouldn't suggest a runner who'd lost a leg, then couldn't run without a prosthesis, was failing without that mechanical aid just because he lacked familiarity with his equipment or didn't practice enough. There comes a time in life when the body's increasing limitations must be addressed and compensated for.

Speaking for us old timers, I regret to inform you, your time will come. ;)

Nick
 
I too, had cataract surgery. I recently ran acros a M98 with 270 barrel at a supper (low) price. Has a large comercial peep (not Willams or Lyman). I grew up shooting peeps. Bought scopes for everyhing 25 years ago. 270 shoots 3 inch groups @100 yards. Its been fun. I will get it drilled and tapped. Plan to carry it in rain. I've only got $60 investted. Has double set trigger I'm learning about. I loved ghost ring the morning I shot one at our range. daleltaylor@att.net
 
sights

Hey! Guys!
I thought I couldn't see either - then a good looking blonde walked by-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harry B.
 
They ran and I coldn't get the "red-dot" (or any other scope sight on the cat - I was too busy with the "field of view issue."
Click to expand...


Scopes work as well for shooting moving game as irons, you need to use the scope with both eyes open. Swing the rifle like a shotgun and follow through and you will succeed. Unfortunately this is not an easy skill to develop. You have to fight the natural inclination to close one eye and instead "see" the whole target with the off eye. Then concentrate more on the dominant eye to use the reticle and make the shot. Using both eyes puts you onto target eliminating the field of view problem. Of course a lower power scope helps immensely by keeping the images between the two eyes closer in size. But who buys lower power scopes in todays monster variable market? :rolleyes:

Mike
 


I have a screen-type "dot sight" with multiple reticles. Keeping both eyes open - it's the easiest sight to use in a moving situation. There isn't even enough occlusion to worry about becasue the rim of the screen is thin.

A misty fog did render it almost non-functional one time, though.

(And I still prefer mid-power glass on rifles that can consistently hit a pie plate at more than 200 yards)



-tINY

 
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