SIG Sauer: The Return + The Awakening.

Well, some may remember that around this time last year, I had a SIG SAUER P229 Elite Dark in 9mm with a 2010 production year. I've been informally shooting SIG Sauer pistols since my childhood. Around age 12-19 with my uncles W. German P226. I got my own when I turned 21, to which I began taking those "tactical classes" at the ranges and gun shops I worked at.
So, basically, 20 years shooting SIG Sauer pistols.

Now, that P229 Elite Dark had an issue and the frame was being destroyed by the slide. I had purchased it second hand. I called SIG and when they saw pictures they said it "looked fine" to which I insisted that the wear isn't normal. They offered to look at it, so I paid the $35+ to ship it with the same luck.

I called Bruce Gray of Gray Guns Inc to check it out for me after my luck calling SIG and the moment he got it he knew it was wrong, so after measuring all aspects, he told me that the slide was out of spec and digging into the frame. That was taking chunks of anodized aluminum off.

He then told me that he was visiting the mother ship next month and if I wanted to wait for him to take it over there. I said yes and sure enough a month later, SIG wouldn't budge. Wouldn't even so much as pay half. After some conversations with them and a laugh over the phone as if "too bad" I had an emotionally charged and rightfully so (at the time) response to cut them out. Bash them and sell all my SIG Sauer pistols.


I went onto trying out Heckler and Koch, which believe it or not is my favorite arms manufacturer of all time. They don't just make handguns. :]

I tried Glock extensively as well as Smith and Wesson which actually had my heart for the better part of the year. But you need to understand how complex my mind works sometimes. I want an "all-around" firearm. Not just something I shoot well. I want to be able to detail strip it and swap out any part that breaks by myself. This made the Glock amazing for me, but they just don't work for me unless modified. Beavertail for my big mitts, sights, trigger work, etc. So Smith and Wesson M&P? Yes... I even took a class at Tactical Response with my carry gun for 6 months which was an M&P 9L with the Surefire X300U and it ran flawlessly aside from the mags having hiccups due to dropping them in the good ol' Tennessee mud/dirt. It was great and I still like it and have it. But I didn't shoot it as well and as confidently as I did my previous home base. Another silly turn off was needing a rear sight tool in order to remove the plunger spring. Like, why? Then the reset was non-existent which I worked through and shot well regardless. The M&P 2.0 was picked up when I got back. About 2 weeks after. But I had to drop an APEX kit into that one as well. And couldn't for life of me carry it at 4 o'clock if I ever needed to. (sometimes I switch depending on my job/gig) so I ditched that gun as well.

HK, right? My favorite overall arms manufacturer! The USP 9 Compact... too small. More aligned with a Glock 26 and when I changed mags a nice chunk of my palm meat would get caught in between. So I ditched it.

HK USP 9 full-size? Since I can carry full-sized guns and always have been able to. I'm 6'2 with an athletic/muscular build. ;] So I tried it out and the trigger wasn't great as well as only holding 15 rounds in that large package. So, okay... I'll work with it. What're 2 fewer rounds? Nothing really, but when you're looking at all options, you're looking at all options. So I bought a $150 Match Trigger from HK Part dot net.

Had a professional install it... Was not...impressed...whatsoever. Even had some failures to reset.


All this searching. Hurricane Irma passed us and they were estimating 185-200mph winds. I was at my mother's house with my wife, our dogs, some friends and a ton of important things that we'd need to survive for weeks. We've all been through this before and having had no power in tropical weather Miami Florida, it's not fun. Looters, heat, irate individuals, etc.

While we all sat there in the darkness, I had escape routes planned if the roof was to blow off, sledgehammer ready to break into the concrete office building next door, tieing my family members to me one by one with hard hats and moving them next door... I looked over at the 2-3 bags of guns I had. Guns. Nothing but guns alone and they weighed about 100 pounds between all the bags. I said to myself: "screw this, I'm not a collector, I don't need all of this crap"

We survived the storm, cleaned up, and I began selling guns. I sold 90% of my handguns. Ones I didn't like, didn't shoot, didn't care for. I sold them all. Where did I put 98% of that money? Into savings. For a down payment on a house for my wife and I. No more apartment rentals, soon and no more sharing space with the nuclear mixed and match family sitcom.



I went to a shop to sign over a firearm through an FFL for an anal retentive buyer and then I saw it... Priced very well. And best of all, they didn't know what they had. At that price? A SIG Sauer P220 with no silly gimmicky name, but it had a beaver tail and a "Made in Germany" frame. Short extractor and night sights. Hold on, though. I'm mad at SIG... I shouldn't give them a dime. And this one is used, right? Wrong. I took it apart because I told them what had happened to me in the past and the frame rails were perfect and wearing into the old anodized-style of coloration. It was at gold. So I bought it.


Couldn't believe I did it, but I did. Shot like a dream. Shot like what I was used to. I haven't felt at home base in forever. The hold of the sights, the feel, the trigger in DA and reset of the SRT in SA. I was ecstatic. I missed this. Something I can take apart with my eyes closed. Shoot well. Have trained extensively. But wait, it's a 45. I love 45, but I'm a 9mm guy...


So I went out and bought an MK25. And that's been what I have been carrying for about a month now. And it feels like home base again. Second nature. It didn't have the SRT trigger installed. So got one for $39 and swapped out the parts. Then a Bruce Gray flat trigger for $47. So, the trigger is better than what I was already used to for all these years.


Sorry for the long-winded and blabbing post. But hey, it's a story. That's what we're here for is it not?

Moral of the story for me? Try not to have an emotional response to things. Yes, their CS with me sucked. I wish they'd explain more or at the very least have budged with me on something, but they didn't. However, I carry their guns for self-defense and work reasons. I trust their capabilities and reliability. I have 26,000 combined rounds over the course of 10 years between my old and no longer owned P226 and P229 pistols (no, not the crappy 229, that was 500 rounds).

I am also not a collector. I have had 60+ handguns and now I only have 5 and I still may cut a few of them out. I focus on self-defense, survival, and preparations for worst-case scenarios/natural disasters/civil unrest. AR, shotgun, 22lr rifle, and a couple of handguns are among the weapons I will possibly *need*. There is a Glock 19 in a crash bag for obvious reasons. Availability of mags and parts.



So, this is my little story on things. I have my MK25 and P220. Each with their own custom holsters and 5+ mags for each. The goal is at lease 12+ magazines for each and we're cooking with fire. I already have spare parts and all. They're what I can take apart the best and easiest as well as the Glock.

Chopping block guns are the HK45C and M&P 9L. But, we'll see.

Much love. If you made it this far, you're awesome.
 
I can understand your feelings, but I'm still not giving Sig a penny in any capacity. The P320 is a disaster. The P365 is a disaster. Their customer service is a disaster. Until I've seen some major overhaul of the company, quality control, and customer service... I'm out, without question. The P226 is still my favorite design of all time... But I can't stand by a company that won't stand by me. The are other options, and Sig are t6 the only guns with good triggers - as you know that I'm discovering at the moment. ;)

I'm glad you're happy with them, though. Makes me a little sad that we likely won't be carrying the same gun in the near future.
 
lol you're one of my best friends, your support was great. And your new endeavor looks awesome. Makes me rethink why I didn't pursue them a little harder when I was in my search. I also agree. It sucks that they don't stand by their product passed the first owner. The 320 and 365 are disasters. But the classic P-Series is where I stay when it comes to that company. <3
 
If it's used, they don't get any of your money, so more power to you! I'm glad you got another one.

After I bought a Mosquito, because I was stupid, I swore I would never buy another Sig. Then I ran across a used P230 for very cheap. It's a good shooter. I figured that I'm a parent, and thus automatically a hypocrite, so why not. And they still didn't get any of my money. :)
 
I have a German built Sig Sauer P226 LDC great gun and quality.


-Made in Germany
-Black PVD coated (feels very different to my nitron Sigs)
-All stainless pistol
-Crowned and polished heavy target barrel
-Skeletonized hammer
-Adjustable trigger stop
-Not a true Mastershop pistol, but does have the mastershop trigger and action package. (she is smooth as glass and single action break is incredible)
-New shorter SRT approx 1.2mm (and it feels shorter than that)
-HI VIZ Fiber optic front sight and LPA manufactured adjustable rear.
-Full dust cover target frame
-Deeper cut rear cocking serrations
 
Constantine,
I was exactly in the same boat when two years ago, one of the worst fires hit our area of California, and we were forced to escape in 15 minutes with two bags of guns. So since then I've been slowly reducing my collection to only what is needed.
Only have about twenty or plus so guns now!LOL
 
HVR, you see what I mean? I felt silly. Having all the responsibility on my shoulders. Taking care of my entire family and with the help of my friends, I also have my own 2-3 bags of just guns? So, God forbid, the house flies away and I have to book town in my assault pack (EDC bag anyways), SHTF bag as well as 2 extra bags of just guns? I felt extremely silly.

My uncle did as well. He had to evacuate. When he left his safe and all his guns behind, with hundreds of high-end rifles and handguns, he turned around and blew his building a kiss since he's on the first floor. He didn't think he'd come back to them.

He's also sold a ton if not all.
 
I even took a class at Tactical Response with my carry gun for 6 months which was an M&P 9L with the Surefire X300U and it ran flawlessly aside from the mags having hiccups due to dropping them in the good ol' Tennessee mud/dirt.

It's not just dirt. I did a course with my 2.0 Compact where the baseplates kept getting knocked forward from hitting concrete. I tried reseating them as best as I could, but it kept doing it over the course. Did it cause a malfunction? No, but it's something that never happened with any of the 80+ pistols I've owned.

Then the reset was non-existent which I worked through and shot well regardless. The M&P 2.0 was picked up when I got back. About 2 weeks after. But I had to drop an APEX kit into that one as well.

The reset on mine is certainly audible and tactile. I find though that people tend to be pickier about triggers than I am. I just shoot the pistol. Heck, I even shoot Glocks with stock triggers. It's madness.

And couldn't for life of me carry it at 4 o'clock if I ever needed to. (sometimes I switch depending on my job/gig) so I ditched that gun as well.

I could definitely see how with the texture that it could be obnoxious.

So I bought a $150 Match Trigger from HK Part dot net. Had a professional install it... Was not...impressed...whatsoever. Even had some failures to reset.

To be honest I never found the match kit overly impressive either. But a "professional" should have noticed failures to reset on install. HKs are one of the few pistols I've found so far where parts typically drop in. The match kit install is easy and you should be able to do it without having reset issues. If you do, going to the light TRS rather than the match will probably solve them. Typically I just swap out the hammer spring. Again, not as picky as some.

The P320 is a disaster.

The P320 is problematic, but I think disaster is a bit much. It seems mostly ironed out at this point. Should they have done more due diligence? Sure, but we've beat that horse into the ground in other threads.

Shot like a dream. Shot like what I was used to. I haven't felt at home base in forever.

Don't take this the wrong way, but given past threads of yours I won't be too surprised if in a year I'm reading the same sentence, but in reference to a different pistol.

have had 60+ handguns and now I only have 5 and I still may cut a few of them out. I focus on self-defense, survival, and preparations for worst-case scenarios/natural disasters/civil unrest. AR, shotgun, 22lr rifle, and a couple of handguns are among the weapons I will possibly *need*.

There's nothing wrong with realizing you need to change priorities in life. You also don't need to rationalize it to anyone, least of all people on the internet. Some people have the disposable income for more, some for less. Collecting and self defense don't have to be mutually exclusive, but you're right that at some point it's a good idea to ask what you're really gaining from each purchase (or what you could have instead).

Makes me a little sad that we likely won't be carrying the same gun in the near future.

Makes me sad to hear the bromance like this :(
 
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That's shocking and disappointing to hear that Sig's customer service sucks so bad. Am I lucky I haven't any issues? To be fair, I have a low round count on my P229 .357 Sig, and just a couple of boxes through my 226 Legion and my wife's 320, our most recent aquisitions. I have to have a couple thousand through my P220, though.

But the P220 is nearly 30 years old, and is made in (West) Germany. Hmmmm, could there be a trend here?
 
Wrt to the 320, sig is not the first nor the last to need a recall of a firearm. Nor are they alone with the problem. I have 4 320s, the first was sent in for the upgrade, 3 weeks door to door and very happy with the new trigger. The next two will be back in my hands in tue. 2 weeks door to door. Sig has paid for all shipping and provided a 25% discount coupon. I dont see that as a disaster.
I own other striker fired weapons. One is a ruger sr9. In their manual they depict the weapon falling on the same angle as the sig along w a disclaimer that it may discharge if dropped. Where is all the outrage for the sr9? This is not a slam on ruger. I still choose to use this firearm as do countless others.
How about the Remington 700? The list is much bigger than sig and sig dealt with it fine imo.
The 320 is the softest most accurate handgun i have fired for anything less than 2k. And i have plenty of 1911s that cost much more than a 320.
 
Constantine:
I read your original post about the Sig with the defective slide. I decided from reading your post that there would be no used Sigs for me. If a company won’t stand behind their product I have no use for them.
I am happy that you found a Sig that you are satisfied with. I will stay with Glocks and my old S&W.
I do have two Sigs that I bought new, P238 and P938 that I’m very happy with. They were purchased before your post. With the 365 and 320 problems there might not be ant new Sig purchases for me.:)
 
I've used SIGs for 30+ years, carried a P226 full time for several years, became a SIG armorer,etc. Have to admit I'm surprised that SIG would not make an effort to make it right. Even if you were not the original owner, and they thought you were completely full of condensed apple pie, I would have thought they would try to make it right for you. Then, Bruce Gray apparently spoke to them about the out of spec slide. Some of these big corporations that refuse to budge, and satisfy a customer mystify me. The cost would be inconsequential to them. If they'd made an effort, they'd likely have retained a loyal customer, instead of someone with access to social media who may not speak of them in the most glowing of terms. But, I've never been a corporate mogul, or businessman of any type, so I guess, in the end, it makes financial sense to interact with consumers in the manner you've described.......

Welcome back;)
 
Wrt to the 320, sig is not the first nor the last to need a recall of a firearm. Nor are they alone with the problem. I have 4 320s, the first was sent in for the upgrade, 3 weeks door to door and very happy with the new trigger. The next two will be back in my hands in tue. 2 weeks door to door. Sig has paid for all shipping and provided a 25% discount coupon. I dont see that as a disaster.

I own other striker fired weapons. One is a ruger sr9. In their manual they depict the weapon falling on the same angle as the sig along w a disclaimer that it may discharge if dropped. Where is all the outrage for the sr9? This is not a slam on ruger. I still choose to use this firearm as do countless others.

How about the Remington 700? The list is much bigger than sig and sig dealt with it fine imo.

The 320 is the softest most accurate handgun i have fired for anything less than 2k. And i have plenty of 1911s that cost much more than a 320.



They (P320s) are NOT as accurate as 1911s. You may shoot it better but that's not the same thing. But... if the one P320 I shot is indicative of them all they are PLENTY accurate!

Everyone should try a CZ 75 P-07 or P-09. Install Cajun Gun Works' Pro Grade kit or better yet just order one from CGW where they polish the internals and then compare to whatever your favorite pistol is.

Yes, they are that good. [emoji41][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
They (P320s) are NOT as accurate as 1911s. You may shoot it better but that's not the same thing. But... if the one P320 I shot is indicative of them all they are PLENTY accurate!

Everyone should try a CZ 75 P-07 or P-09. Install Cajun Gun Works' Pro Grade kit or better yet just order one from CGW where they polish the internals and then compare to whatever your favorite pistol is.

Yes, they are that good. [emoji41][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not sure that the P320 is less accurate than the 1911 platform universally. I think both are going to be more accurate than 99% of shooters. Unless you are consistently shooting a 25 and 50 yards you are not pushing the accuracy limits of pistols. Most people can't shoot consistent groups at 10 yard let alone 50 yards so it is sort of a moot point IMHO.

Now as to the second part of your post I agree. They are working on a Steel Framed w/Rail Compact for me right now. I am also going to send in my Shadow 2 and have them clean it up and put a 10X bushing in it.

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As for returning to Sig. #NEVERAGAIN I sold my P320 and it is the last new Sig I will ever buy. It was a good gun but I am tired of Sig using the consumer as a beta tester. I will continue to buy used W. German and German Sigs but no new Sigs ever.
 
I had Sig P228 that shot like a dream. I have 2 P229s and am pretty happy with them. I haven't bought one of the newer ones though and I have heard quality has gone way down. I just ordered a P320 X-Five which I'm hoping is going to be good. I read some great reviews but it felt pretty bulky in the hand. I have a few guns I have yet to shoot, but I'm looking forward to shooting it.
 
There’s no perfect company. I like SIGs and I don’t think I would stop buying them forever after a bad experience either. Lots of people have had poor service from HK also and I like them too. When it comes down to it the brands make fine products and that’s the main thing for me. Glad you’ve got pistols you’re happy with.
 
There’s no perfect company. I like SIGs and I don’t think I would stop buying them forever after a bad experience either. Lots of people have had poor service from HK also and I like them too. When it comes down to it the brands make fine products and that’s the main thing for me. Glad you’ve got pistols you’re happy with.
The problem is that Sig gets a new product to 80%-85% right and then releases it. The paying customer then spends the next 12-18 months beta testing it before it runs like it should have from day one. Early Sig adopters these days are guinea pigs paying for the privilege. Every company does this to and extent but Sig is the worst.
 
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