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Sig P365 Legal in Most States?
- Thread starter MrBot
- Start date
Doesn't matter what is available, what matters is what it is sold with, in states that have those laws. If its sold with a state legal size magazine, the law is complied with. If you go somewhere and get a magazine that is not legal in your state, then you're breaking the law if you possess it in that state. In the gun, or not. Look how the law is written, it does matter.
Some places (like California) have other, additional requirements. The gun not only has to be magazine size compliant, but also has to be on their approved for sale list. If its not on that list (in places that have them) then even if it meets magazine capacity limits, its still not for sale in that state.
Some places (like California) have other, additional requirements. The gun not only has to be magazine size compliant, but also has to be on their approved for sale list. If its not on that list (in places that have them) then even if it meets magazine capacity limits, its still not for sale in that state.
..appreciate the input 44AMP. The reason I ask is that I heard our newly elected Democrat Illinois governor claim he & his band o' gun-grabbing goons will probably look @ banning high-capacity mags in 2019. I figure these folks figure anything over 10 rds is high-capacity. I'd love to pick up the 365. ..just not sure if it's likely to be on their Banned List.
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Spats McGee
Administrator
I think 44 AMP pretty well nailed it. From what I've seen about IL recently, I'd be very cautious about getting anything with >10 rounds right now. The governor & legislature look ready to ban anything with a trigger.
Its not the gun they are banning, its the magazine.
In new york, at frist it was a max of 7. My son in law posted on social media. "we don't care about killing the first seven, its the last three we are trying to save".
It did get raised to 10 since most 22s and a lot of other guns have 10 round magazines. I can carry a Bertta 92 as long as its a 10 round magazine.
Yes even 10 + 1 is allowed.
This is all in NY state.
Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk
In new york, at frist it was a max of 7. My son in law posted on social media. "we don't care about killing the first seven, its the last three we are trying to save".
It did get raised to 10 since most 22s and a lot of other guns have 10 round magazines. I can carry a Bertta 92 as long as its a 10 round magazine.
Yes even 10 + 1 is allowed.
This is all in NY state.
Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk
Current status P365 and P365 MS (manual safety)
Cali: Not an expert on Cali but it looks to be excluded from their roster as many/most new guns due to microstamping impasse, meaning I believe only in-moving non-residents already possessing (and law enforcement/retired law enforcement?) can get/bring p365 with or without Manual Safety.
DC *: (all versions allowed)
-Non-Manual safety version approved for anyone due to presence on Maryland roster
-Manual safety version approved for anyone due to presence on Massachusetts roster
Mass ** (two step system: a) Mass roster b) Mass Attorney General's required "features")
- Non-manual safety version a) has not been submitted by Sig to Mass and Sig has not tested it for roster, and it is also b) not compliant with AG features requirements.
-Manual Safety version a) testing results approved and now on roster, and MS version complies with AG requirements as well.
Maryland ***:
- Non Manual safety version submitted and approved for roster
- Manual Safety version not submitted by Sig to Maryland and therefore not on roster (ironic).
Notes:
* DC current rules state that any handgun on roster any of the other roster states are approved. with following exceptions: a) Non LEO possession of over ten round mags in DC is per se illegal; b) inclusion (and perhaps constructive possession of) threaded barrel is not allowed.
Essentially if it is on roster of any of the three roster states it is ok in DC. And DC only requires for a handgun, if using Mass roster, for it to be roster and not roster+ AG features. in other worlds the broader category of on roster in Mass even when not "Mass compliant" it is ok for DC non-LEO even if not ok for Mass non-LEO
Upside for DC residents: a gun being on any roster is ok
Downside for DC residents: Unlike roster states, where in-movers are allowed many "off-roster" guns, or where secondary market allows second hand private transaction off-roster handguns; in DC, if off-roster they are not allowed at all even for in-movers.
** Mass uses two separate steps. 1) The handgun "Roster" consists of the maker hiring a third party testing firm that they pay to conduct tests for engineering and build quality. The third party firm conducts drop tests, accuracy tests, and certifies it won't break after a few thousand rounds. They submit those results to Mass authorities and it is approved for roster inclusion based on those tests. Approval for roster ONLY allows active and retired law enforcement to buy the gun new from dealer, and non LEO to buy used on secondary market (with huge premiums).
2) The second step, needed for non-LEO to buy one new at an FFL, is based on if the additional Mass Attorney General "compliance" requirements are met or not. That does require presence of certain features: a) a feature set supposed to prevent a child from firing with a single finger singular action. this means it must have either a 10lb trigger on first pull (glock with nypd trigger spring or say a sa/da) or an external manual safety. And b) a "accidental firing" feature of either a visual or tactile loaded chamber indicator or a magazine disconnect (won't fire chambered round with magazine removed).
Mass Roster = stays in one piece when you shoot it
Mass Compliant = it is on roster, and it is Mass AG's idea of kid safer and ND safer
If it is on Mass roster only, then the following can get the gun new: Mass LEO and Mass retired LEO. The following can have a used gun; Mass in-movers possessing before Mass residency and people willing to pay $700 for a $300 for used gun from a LEO or out-mover. For other legal gun owners it must also be Mass compliant including the "feature set" created by the Mass Attorney General.
***Maryland handgun roster is comprised only of engineering and build quality testing as well. if there is not some kind of design, materials or build quality problem it will get approved. There is a difference from Mass roster and Maryland roster in way gun is submitted. In Mass individuals can submit a gun but would have to pay for testing too, since the state doesn't actually test, but instead certifies results, and testing is thousands of dollars. In Maryland the maker -- or anyone -- including a non resident, say a DC resident who wants to use Maryland roster inclusion, submits a sample of the gun itself, and Maryland conducts tests at general taxpayer expense. The process takes longer, but if there is a gun you want to get, you can, through your FFL submit it, get the model approved, and get the gun back at the end of the process.
My post is long winded, but I am attempted to be comprehensive as possible given there is a lot of misinformation out there and the four roster jurisdictions really have very different systems and results. Keep in mind also FFLs maybe more relaxed, or even more likely may err on the side of caution and refuse guns that are allowed by law, as is their right. So a given FFL's statement on what is allowed may not be accurate.
As others have noted the >10 round magazine issue is different and more straight-forward. That has to do with state/local laws on per se possession and grandfathering or not. There are also marketing a d packaging considerations where a "LEO" package or a state compliant package may be marked for a state. Because of proliferation in 10 round limits, a lot of dealers on internet purchases to your local FFL, the dealer will, if all they have in stock is 12 or 15 round packages will, for a small fee a) swap out 15 round mags for 10 rounders or b) keep them and credit you, or c) send them somewhere else where you can own them which are all options.
Cali: Not an expert on Cali but it looks to be excluded from their roster as many/most new guns due to microstamping impasse, meaning I believe only in-moving non-residents already possessing (and law enforcement/retired law enforcement?) can get/bring p365 with or without Manual Safety.
DC *: (all versions allowed)
-Non-Manual safety version approved for anyone due to presence on Maryland roster
-Manual safety version approved for anyone due to presence on Massachusetts roster
Mass ** (two step system: a) Mass roster b) Mass Attorney General's required "features")
- Non-manual safety version a) has not been submitted by Sig to Mass and Sig has not tested it for roster, and it is also b) not compliant with AG features requirements.
-Manual Safety version a) testing results approved and now on roster, and MS version complies with AG requirements as well.
Maryland ***:
- Non Manual safety version submitted and approved for roster
- Manual Safety version not submitted by Sig to Maryland and therefore not on roster (ironic).
Notes:
* DC current rules state that any handgun on roster any of the other roster states are approved. with following exceptions: a) Non LEO possession of over ten round mags in DC is per se illegal; b) inclusion (and perhaps constructive possession of) threaded barrel is not allowed.
Essentially if it is on roster of any of the three roster states it is ok in DC. And DC only requires for a handgun, if using Mass roster, for it to be roster and not roster+ AG features. in other worlds the broader category of on roster in Mass even when not "Mass compliant" it is ok for DC non-LEO even if not ok for Mass non-LEO
Upside for DC residents: a gun being on any roster is ok
Downside for DC residents: Unlike roster states, where in-movers are allowed many "off-roster" guns, or where secondary market allows second hand private transaction off-roster handguns; in DC, if off-roster they are not allowed at all even for in-movers.
** Mass uses two separate steps. 1) The handgun "Roster" consists of the maker hiring a third party testing firm that they pay to conduct tests for engineering and build quality. The third party firm conducts drop tests, accuracy tests, and certifies it won't break after a few thousand rounds. They submit those results to Mass authorities and it is approved for roster inclusion based on those tests. Approval for roster ONLY allows active and retired law enforcement to buy the gun new from dealer, and non LEO to buy used on secondary market (with huge premiums).
2) The second step, needed for non-LEO to buy one new at an FFL, is based on if the additional Mass Attorney General "compliance" requirements are met or not. That does require presence of certain features: a) a feature set supposed to prevent a child from firing with a single finger singular action. this means it must have either a 10lb trigger on first pull (glock with nypd trigger spring or say a sa/da) or an external manual safety. And b) a "accidental firing" feature of either a visual or tactile loaded chamber indicator or a magazine disconnect (won't fire chambered round with magazine removed).
Mass Roster = stays in one piece when you shoot it
Mass Compliant = it is on roster, and it is Mass AG's idea of kid safer and ND safer
If it is on Mass roster only, then the following can get the gun new: Mass LEO and Mass retired LEO. The following can have a used gun; Mass in-movers possessing before Mass residency and people willing to pay $700 for a $300 for used gun from a LEO or out-mover. For other legal gun owners it must also be Mass compliant including the "feature set" created by the Mass Attorney General.
***Maryland handgun roster is comprised only of engineering and build quality testing as well. if there is not some kind of design, materials or build quality problem it will get approved. There is a difference from Mass roster and Maryland roster in way gun is submitted. In Mass individuals can submit a gun but would have to pay for testing too, since the state doesn't actually test, but instead certifies results, and testing is thousands of dollars. In Maryland the maker -- or anyone -- including a non resident, say a DC resident who wants to use Maryland roster inclusion, submits a sample of the gun itself, and Maryland conducts tests at general taxpayer expense. The process takes longer, but if there is a gun you want to get, you can, through your FFL submit it, get the model approved, and get the gun back at the end of the process.
My post is long winded, but I am attempted to be comprehensive as possible given there is a lot of misinformation out there and the four roster jurisdictions really have very different systems and results. Keep in mind also FFLs maybe more relaxed, or even more likely may err on the side of caution and refuse guns that are allowed by law, as is their right. So a given FFL's statement on what is allowed may not be accurate.
As others have noted the >10 round magazine issue is different and more straight-forward. That has to do with state/local laws on per se possession and grandfathering or not. There are also marketing a d packaging considerations where a "LEO" package or a state compliant package may be marked for a state. Because of proliferation in 10 round limits, a lot of dealers on internet purchases to your local FFL, the dealer will, if all they have in stock is 12 or 15 round packages will, for a small fee a) swap out 15 round mags for 10 rounders or b) keep them and credit you, or c) send them somewhere else where you can own them which are all options.
I think 44 AMP pretty well nailed it. From what I've seen about IL recently, I'd be very cautious about getting anything with >10 rounds right now. The governor & legislature look ready to ban anything with a trigger.
Some are grandfathered although that is less and less. And if the gun already has a 10 round mag available, as does the p365, it is low risk. one might be wary in some sates on guns that have no 10 round or less mags made or available but that is a very very small number of models. A p226 in 9mm is going waste a lot of space in its grip with 10 round mags but they are readily available. But in compact and smaller carry guns over 10 is already extended.