SIG P-245 or Glock 36
- Thread starter oneminute
- Start date
Cavè Canem
New member
I would go for the Glock but thats me! Have you held the G30? Slightly wider but holds 4 more rounds then the G36.
Im not a big Sig fan, I have shot various models but I tend to stay away from them. A great weapon yes but over priced AFAIK.
Im not a big Sig fan, I have shot various models but I tend to stay away from them. A great weapon yes but over priced AFAIK.
trapshooter
Moderator
Well, I'll take the other side from Cav. I prefer the Sig. It feels better (to me), and I haven't considered a Glock since I owned one (19) that I (happily) traded for a Smith 5906. As I have said before in prior posts, I don't care for pistols that don't have an exposed hammer. Just a quirk I have.
Also, at risk of starting a firestorm, Sigs are a more accurate and higher quality pistol, out of the box, than Glocks, IMO. (Remeber that the P245 is not a totally German-made weapon). Lot's of Glock owners would vehemently disagree. Too bad. The reason that they are so prevalent in PD's is because they cost less, period. Sorry, but them's the facts.
This is all very irksome, because whenever I consider buying a 10MM, the Glocks are the only ones available that I would trust at a price I can afford. Maybe that's why I don't have a 10MM, yet.
I bet I'm in for it now.
Also, at risk of starting a firestorm, Sigs are a more accurate and higher quality pistol, out of the box, than Glocks, IMO. (Remeber that the P245 is not a totally German-made weapon). Lot's of Glock owners would vehemently disagree. Too bad. The reason that they are so prevalent in PD's is because they cost less, period. Sorry, but them's the facts.
This is all very irksome, because whenever I consider buying a 10MM, the Glocks are the only ones available that I would trust at a price I can afford. Maybe that's why I don't have a 10MM, yet.
I bet I'm in for it now.
I'm on the same wavelength as Trapshooter. I think the Glock is the best, reliable, combat accurate, durable pistol on the market FOR THE MONEY! That is why I think that it is a Godsend to Law Enforcement...because they are cheap but they go bang every time. HOWEVER, when I think of a gun that shows class and quality, I don't think of Glock. When I grab a gun to go have a fun day at the range, I don't grab the Glock. The Glock is not classy or fun...it just works PERIOD. Were I to choose a weapon for myself to carry as a civilian, it would not be a Glock. I am a big 1911 fan and love Kimbers but you have ruled them out. I think Sig makes the finest DA auto that this planet has ever seen, bar none. Given the choice of a Glock or a Sig for Police Duty Carry...probably a Glock. Given the choice of a gun for myself...Sig all the way. I have handled a friends P245 and was highly impressed. Being that I prefer full-size autos, I have a P220 and will never part with it.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
Trap---
Remeber that the P245 is not a totally German-made weapon)
The P245 is completely German made------the P229 and P239 are the ones you are talking about.
Remeber that the P245 is not a totally German-made weapon)
The P245 is completely German made------the P229 and P239 are the ones you are talking about.
trapshooter
Moderator
Omaha, I'll have to check for proof marks again. It was my understanding that the slides were made in US, or assembled here.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
My P245 doesn't have the proof marks at bottom of the slide----but the frame says "Made in Germany".
I was looking at a P229 in the store where the frame was stamped "Frame Made in Germany"----inplying that the slide was not.
The slide on the P245 is the folded steel one---like those of the P220 and P225.
The P229 and P239 have the milled slides that were made in the USA.
I was looking at a P229 in the store where the frame was stamped "Frame Made in Germany"----inplying that the slide was not.
The slide on the P245 is the folded steel one---like those of the P220 and P225.
The P229 and P239 have the milled slides that were made in the USA.
shoot them both and you'll quickly know whether you'd like the chopped down P-220 called a P-245.
isi07734 is right.
the balance isn't the best with the P-245 and oh my, where'd the grip go. see if you can shoot 200 rounds of some hot 200 grain Corbons or Speer gold dots in that short puppy.
looking at sales, the g30/36 are outselling the P-245 6 to one due to features, feel, and pricing.
shot them all and went for the G30 myself
isi07734 is right.
the balance isn't the best with the P-245 and oh my, where'd the grip go. see if you can shoot 200 rounds of some hot 200 grain Corbons or Speer gold dots in that short puppy.
looking at sales, the g30/36 are outselling the P-245 6 to one due to features, feel, and pricing.
shot them all and went for the G30 myself
jtduncan...
Now see...that is where people screw up. The .45 is a nice mild round that hits hard in the original 230 grain low pressure loading. Why anyone would want to shoot a hopped up light weight +P out of a .45 ACP is beyond me.
Um..."pricing" being the operative word there. It sure as hell 'aint due to "features" or "feel".
Same goes for the Glock 30 and 36.
And I suppose that the Glock 30 is not a "chopped down" Glock 21?
Best advice I've heard yet, and the only thing we agree on!
Now see...that is where people screw up. The .45 is a nice mild round that hits hard in the original 230 grain low pressure loading. Why anyone would want to shoot a hopped up light weight +P out of a .45 ACP is beyond me.
Um..."pricing" being the operative word there. It sure as hell 'aint due to "features" or "feel".
Same goes for the Glock 30 and 36.
And I suppose that the Glock 30 is not a "chopped down" Glock 21?
Best advice I've heard yet, and the only thing we agree on!
I would love to shoot them but I can't find a range or a friend that owns either of these models. I haven't even seen one in a shop for at least a month! Either one will wind up being an ordered item. When I did handle them it was in different shops about 6 months ago.
They are both equally comfortable in my hand.
I have read articles on both of them and did not get any idea of how recoil (with 230gr standard velocity) was. That is really what I am interested in.
I don't understand why someone would want to shoot +p anything in a .45 either.
They are both equally comfortable in my hand.
I have read articles on both of them and did not get any idea of how recoil (with 230gr standard velocity) was. That is really what I am interested in.
I don't understand why someone would want to shoot +p anything in a .45 either.
David Berkowitz
New member
oneminute,
What are you going to do with it? That will make a difference.
Generally speaking, between the two, I find the Sig 245 to be a much better arm. Similar capacity but, for me, the Sig is much more controlable and accurate.
Now, change the equation to the 245 vs the G30 and you have a different set of choices. Teh G30 is in my opinion is a far better arm than than the 36. I think I would stay with the 245 because for me it just shoots better. The capacity is higher in the 30, but it's not that hard to carry a spare magazine.
I wouldn't want to shoot 200 rounds of anything in these two guns.
What are you going to do with it? That will make a difference.
Generally speaking, between the two, I find the Sig 245 to be a much better arm. Similar capacity but, for me, the Sig is much more controlable and accurate.
Now, change the equation to the 245 vs the G30 and you have a different set of choices. Teh G30 is in my opinion is a far better arm than than the 36. I think I would stay with the 245 because for me it just shoots better. The capacity is higher in the 30, but it's not that hard to carry a spare magazine.
I wouldn't want to shoot 200 rounds of anything in these two guns.
I like the glocks and their simplicity. I have a 36 and the only problem I have with mine is a slight peeling of the plastic coating on the magazine. It did not bond well or something, a little trimming and it is fine.
I like the simple glock. It is not something for bench rest shooting, but it is a nice little package. I have run 230 grain ball and the little +p stuff out of it. It is a nice gun.
I want a colt, the new 70 series is interesting but expensive. The glock was cheap and I figured it would be reliable.
I will add a disclaimer, I own other glocks and prefer them over most others due to price.
I like the simple glock. It is not something for bench rest shooting, but it is a nice little package. I have run 230 grain ball and the little +p stuff out of it. It is a nice gun.
I want a colt, the new 70 series is interesting but expensive. The glock was cheap and I figured it would be reliable.
I will add a disclaimer, I own other glocks and prefer them over most others due to price.
trapshooter
Moderator
Omaha-BeenGlockin
http://www.gunnery.net/sig/101-proof.html
Referring to the link above, my P245 has the 'Circle-P' proof mark, which is supposed to denote US manufacture/proofing.
The only way I can reconcile the "Made in Germany" stamp and the US proof mark is that the P245 is assembled and proofed in the US out of German manufactured parts.
Maybe Ala Dan knows. Beats me. I was just going by the proof mark.
http://www.gunnery.net/sig/101-proof.html
Referring to the link above, my P245 has the 'Circle-P' proof mark, which is supposed to denote US manufacture/proofing.
The only way I can reconcile the "Made in Germany" stamp and the US proof mark is that the P245 is assembled and proofed in the US out of German manufactured parts.
Maybe Ala Dan knows. Beats me. I was just going by the proof mark.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
We learn something new everyday.
sundance:
I'm a member at Washington State's largest shooting range. Weapons Safety Inc. (WSI)Owned and operated by an ex-Microsofter who just loves guns.
He has put almost every popular gun into rentals including all of the Glocks, Sigs, Brownings, Rugers, SWs, HKs, Colts, Kimbers, and even Colt 9mm AR-15s and the HK USC carbine in 45 ACP.
I've shot them almost all of them over the years. I've tested them side by side - same ammo - same distances - same shooter.
Just about two years ago, I put the Glock 30, the Glock 36, and the Sig P245 in a side by side comparsion running all kinds of ammo (factory and reloads) at various ranges from 5 yards to 25 yards.
And the Glock 30 outperformed all of them in my hands. It was getting me 2-3 inch groups at 25 yards compared to the P245 which was in its best, delivering a 3.5 inch group. I could nail 1.5 inch groups with my P220.
The P245 felt top heavy to me - not well-balanced - not a natural pointer. As it did to others here at TFL.
And the Glock 30 was more enjoyable to shoot extended sessions with since it has a doubel recoil spring to suck up the snap and thump for me. The P245 was hard to hold onto and I've got medium sized hands.
The G36 performed similar to the P245 but had the worst recoil of all three. Over at GT, there are tons of posts of folks feeling that the G36 is the hardest snapping Glock of all. It's got a thin backstrap which doesn't help. Glock tradionalists tend to hate the grip and feel of the G36.
I cannot recommend the G36. It was Glock's mistake. Look around, you can find them used with a nice pair of night sights and a holster. I'd pass on the G36 unless you're just looking for a CCW gun. But if you want to put a couple hunded rounds through it a month, no way! Only holds, what 7 rounds too. No thanks!
Second, in colder weather, I want a hotter 200 grain load in my 45 ACP because if you have to shoot through a leather jacket into a large person, you'll need that zip to pentrate 12-14 inches. That's why the 200 grain Speer Gold dot "Ashtrays" are so popular in colder climates. they work.
And I never had any problems shooting hotter ammo through my P220, P226, or any of the range's P239s, or P229. I love the full-sized sigs and the P239 and 228/229s. But not the P245.
Third, no company is perfect. It's just that the P245 and the SigPro series failed to gain any market share. Sig should discontinue them for products which vigorously sell to their niche. The P245 doesn't.
And fourth, go to couple of dealers and ask them how the P245 is selling. It's not. Only at first when it was introduced which is common.
Why . .. .
Because the market is full of good compact 45s that are similarly priced to cheaper.
Glock 30
HK 45 USP Compact
Ruger P-series
EAA Witnesses compacts
CZs
Beretta Cougars
SW 4516
Several compact 1911s like:
Para P-12s
Kimber Pro Carry's
even the Taurus PT-145s (even with its cracked frames problem)
That's all. Lot's of comp and little room to mess up.
I'm a member at Washington State's largest shooting range. Weapons Safety Inc. (WSI)Owned and operated by an ex-Microsofter who just loves guns.
He has put almost every popular gun into rentals including all of the Glocks, Sigs, Brownings, Rugers, SWs, HKs, Colts, Kimbers, and even Colt 9mm AR-15s and the HK USC carbine in 45 ACP.
I've shot them almost all of them over the years. I've tested them side by side - same ammo - same distances - same shooter.
Just about two years ago, I put the Glock 30, the Glock 36, and the Sig P245 in a side by side comparsion running all kinds of ammo (factory and reloads) at various ranges from 5 yards to 25 yards.
And the Glock 30 outperformed all of them in my hands. It was getting me 2-3 inch groups at 25 yards compared to the P245 which was in its best, delivering a 3.5 inch group. I could nail 1.5 inch groups with my P220.
The P245 felt top heavy to me - not well-balanced - not a natural pointer. As it did to others here at TFL.
And the Glock 30 was more enjoyable to shoot extended sessions with since it has a doubel recoil spring to suck up the snap and thump for me. The P245 was hard to hold onto and I've got medium sized hands.
The G36 performed similar to the P245 but had the worst recoil of all three. Over at GT, there are tons of posts of folks feeling that the G36 is the hardest snapping Glock of all. It's got a thin backstrap which doesn't help. Glock tradionalists tend to hate the grip and feel of the G36.
I cannot recommend the G36. It was Glock's mistake. Look around, you can find them used with a nice pair of night sights and a holster. I'd pass on the G36 unless you're just looking for a CCW gun. But if you want to put a couple hunded rounds through it a month, no way! Only holds, what 7 rounds too. No thanks!
Second, in colder weather, I want a hotter 200 grain load in my 45 ACP because if you have to shoot through a leather jacket into a large person, you'll need that zip to pentrate 12-14 inches. That's why the 200 grain Speer Gold dot "Ashtrays" are so popular in colder climates. they work.
And I never had any problems shooting hotter ammo through my P220, P226, or any of the range's P239s, or P229. I love the full-sized sigs and the P239 and 228/229s. But not the P245.
Third, no company is perfect. It's just that the P245 and the SigPro series failed to gain any market share. Sig should discontinue them for products which vigorously sell to their niche. The P245 doesn't.
And fourth, go to couple of dealers and ask them how the P245 is selling. It's not. Only at first when it was introduced which is common.
Why . .. .
Because the market is full of good compact 45s that are similarly priced to cheaper.
Glock 30
HK 45 USP Compact
Ruger P-series
EAA Witnesses compacts
CZs
Beretta Cougars
SW 4516
Several compact 1911s like:
Para P-12s
Kimber Pro Carry's
even the Taurus PT-145s (even with its cracked frames problem)
That's all. Lot's of comp and little room to mess up.
jtduncan
OK...
Like I said...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shoot them both
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best advice I've heard yet, and the only thing we agree on!
But that is why so many different guns are made...because there are so many different people with so many different opinions. I never said you were wrong...I just said that I don't agree!
OK...
Like I said...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shoot them both
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best advice I've heard yet, and the only thing we agree on!
But that is why so many different guns are made...because there are so many different people with so many different opinions. I never said you were wrong...I just said that I don't agree!