Sig 229 under fire?!! What the F???

M

Mylhouse

New member
OK, gentlemen. Last week I questioned the USP, so to be fair, this week I'll bring to light doubts I've heard about my favorite pistol, the Sig 229 in .40 or .357 sig. Hey, Job is the only guy I know of that NEVER questioned his faith, and this isn't even GOD that we're talking about here!
I've heard the negative rap about how aluminum frames aren't as tough as steel, or even polymer, and I've been hearing lately about "cracked" frames. But the one opinion that hit me like a slap across the face on a cold, windy day was that of a very respected gunsmith around town. He had done a little work for me, and we were just shootin' the breeze when we got on the subject of pistols that were gaining his respect (he's a big 1911, and to a lesser extent, Glock guy). Along the course of discussion, he mentioned that he felt the Ruger P95 was a gun that would "last 3 lifetimes, a real tractor". When I asked him what he thought of my beloved 229, he said, "A very well made, precise, accurate gun. Good for urban defense, but I don't know about field use. If you get a little dirt inside the gun, I suspect you would get plenty of jams and FTF's. I consider it a less-than-a-lifetime gun."
At that point, the phone rang, so he had to go, and I haven't talked to him since. I always had imagined being buried with my Sig. :D However, if I lead a long and fruitful life, and if Clintler doesn't manage to swipe my guns, it might be me burying my 229 prematurely. :(
Please chime in and let me know what you think. I'll try not to be so crotchety this time. Thanks, dudes.
 
Mylhouse, it might very well be true although my single experience with this issue shouldn't count at all. Once, I had a rented P229 jamming on me CONSISTENTLY at an indoor range. I approached the guy at the counter, he cleaned it briefly, and the pistol didn't have a single problem whatsoever with arround 150 rounds right after that. Does it qualify to say that all 229s are like that -- they get dirty, and the first problem is they fail to feed? Probably not, my experience simply matched the subject of your post.
If I'm ever to use my Sig, it's MOST likely going to be in the urban environment.

Emin
 
I don't know about cracked Sig frames or less-than-lifetime use but I do know that Sigs are extremely accurate. One way the Sig Arms was able to accomplish this was by making the pistol's action very tight. When you introduce fouling and debris into a tight action, malfunctions may occur. This is true with all semi-auto pistols as well.

I do believe that your friends comment about the durability of Sig pistols was not accurate. Heck, the SEAL's dropped the Beretta and went with the Sig 226. I sure as hell won't tell them that their equipment is sh*t!
 
Pete80:

As I understand, SEALs experienced cracked frames with the SIGs and have gone back to specially ordered Berettas (cocked-and-locked capable, made in Italy).

However, I believe that SIG has made changes to strengthen the frame particularly on newer models like the P229 (which I have).

Nonetheless, an aluminum frame gun, with the current metallurgy technology, will not be as durable as steel or well-made polymer IMHO.

Something else too. I have both a SIG P229 and a H&K USP Compact in .40S&W. I've shot each about 500 rounds and the SIG looks like it is a bit more worn internally. The H&K looks pretty brand new still. I personally have no doubt as too which is built tougher.

BTW, does anyone want to buy a used SIG P229?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
That reminds me of the saying, "Your not a SEAL until you've eaten Italian steel". That goes back to when the SEAL's were testing the M9 (Beretta) and a few slides blew off and struck a few SEAL's in the face.
 
To answer some of you who have questioned which handgun the SEALs are using, I can tell you that it is the SIG P226. Yes the SEAL's did have problems with cracked slides, but it was less than one percent of all of their P226's. It was identified as a design defect and all slides were replaced. Fact. Hope that clears it up.
 
About the aluminum frame--the aluminum frames apparently outlast the steel slides in Sigs (at least two east coast PDs--Baltimore for sure and one in NJ I believe) have experienced a very small percentage <1%) cracked slides in their Sigs after 10/11 years of use. I do not know what ammo they were using, but I assume it was hot +P or +P+ LE load. For a different pistol with aluminum frame, Chuck Taylor says the frame of the LW Commander (aluminum) outlasts the steel frame of the Government Model. As for the polymer frames, I am still in a wait and see mode for long term (time AND round count--not just round count) durability with high pressure rounds.
 
As long as we're on the topic of military units, at least one Central American country dropped the SIG Sauer P226 because of cracked frames. The frames couldn't take sustained punishment from hot submachine loads. They're now with the CZ75B because as a previous poster said steel frames are tougher than aluminum. Yet I still consider the P226 one of the finest 9mm made because I for one don't intend to feed a pistol thousands of +p+ rounds.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Try this thread below. Sigs are known to be good at a lot of things. They are reliable and accurate (from the bench anyway), but they are known also NOT to last all that well nor do they hold up too well under dirty or adverse conditions. With a Sig, like a sports car, you are trading great performance ofr other fallbacks. That great performance comes with tight tolerances and lots of little parts. This does not go to well with dirt. Keep your Sig clean and don't expect it to last forever, just buy another one when it wear out if you like them so much.

http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum3/HTML/006151.html
 
I always thought this was sort of a common sense issue. If you take care of your gun, don't abuse it, keep it clean and lubed, it should last at least a lifetime. I know there are a lot of guys who buy Glocks just so they can test the limits of the gun. But for most of us, we just want something to carry and shoot once or twice a month. This is sort of ownership is not overly burdensome on the gun materials regardless of who makes the piece. I admit that I have seen more used Sigs at gun shows with finish wear than I have Glocks...but does it really matter? The Sig slides are made of stainless anyways. If the finish begins wearing, you can always buff the rest of it off and bingo....you have a two-tone gun with a stainless slide. BTW...how many of us actually get dirt inside our guns? So many times we talk as though we are about to go to war in the middle of the desert with our weapons but really,how dirty does a gun get just sitting inside your waistband? Not very...."Oh but what if I have to...." the hypothetical scenarios go on and on.
 
Questioning the HK, and now the SIG?

Ouch... my head...
Where is my Aleve and TUMS?

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey - have you seen the new Ultimate Super Tactical Match Gun?
 
Piggy,

Well some of us actually put our pistols through brutal conditions. I think that under the conditions you describe any pistol will do. If you take your pistol on a hunt, use it in LEO situtations or live in a developing nation then it becomes important to consider a pistol's life expectancy, performance when filthy, functioing with poor lube, etc. etc.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Thanks, Tecolote-you took the words right out of my fingertips. Sorry, George, didn't mean to make you run for the medicine cabinet-I just didn't have anything revolutionary or insightful to post. I sometimes question hard-to-believe claims (hype) and when someone I respect criticizes my carry piece, it bothers me until I talk to someone and get reassurance from someone else I respect. For instance, I hear all the time of people claiming to get SUB-2" groups from 25 yards with all sorts of stock pistols FREE HAND. I assume this means not resting the pistol in a Ransom or on a sandbag. Some of these people claiming that have been shooting for less than a year (they bought their first gun to prepare for the Y2K hype). Having shot handguns for 15 years and being 28 now, I find these SUB-2" groups free hand VERY hard to choke down. I'm not saying it can't be done, but come on, most stock pistols won't even do that with a Ransom Rest!
 
Frame durability is one issue but another is functioning in adverse conditions. How does one get dirt into a SIG Sauer P series? The slide rails wrap around the frame. The area around the hammer while exposed presents no problem. I personally know people that have acrried their P226s in extreme combat situations that include belly down action in mud, stomping in pouring rain day after day, you name it. They've never had trouble with reliability. OK so one guy had to take electrical tape to the grips on his P226 because as he was exiting an armored vehicle it fell out of his holster and landed squarely on the butt, but hey it worked for over a year until the cracked grips were replaced.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
In all fairness to Beretta, Sig and S&W, any of these guns will suffer cracked frames if fed a steady diet of submachinegun ammo. Remember that a lot of SMGs are blowback operated and must generate enough energy to cycle the action. Pistols aren't designed to subsist on a diet of SMG ammo.

Sig admits that the frames on a P220 can crack (on earlier guns below Serial#219,xxx). The crack would appear at the base of the slide catch lever notch and could grow 1/4" in length. Sig felt that it did not compromise the frame and nothing critical was at issue. On higher serial # guns though, Sig widened the frame (at the request of a large user). I would hazzard to say that if a 9mm was given a SMG diet, the same could happen to it.

One thing about S&W, they'll admit it and because they want your business, they'll be more than happy to replace your frame if it cracks. I know an Israeli Police Capt. who reported that his gun had cracked. It was replaced no questions asked Muy Pronto.

On any of these makes, know you guns, give them an annual checkup, but most importantly know their limits and stay within those limits. They'll give you a lifetime of service.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
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