Sideways grip....anatomical logic?

R

radioflyer

New member
Most of you are familier with the traditional "gangster" style of shooting whereby the pistol (usually an automatic) is held sideways in the dominant had with the grip facing away from the body centerline as shown in figure 1:

Fig 1
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Most of the time there is zero sight alignment as the gun is held in a similar fashion as a man about to throw a punch.

......however (for single hand shooting only)

Assuming the arm is extended and sights aligned, a sidways grip allows the sights to be in front of the eyes without the tilting of the head or flexing of the pectoral to bring the arm forward. In this instance the sideways grip allows thee use of the sights similar to the principle of the straight-8 sights AND is in a position that gives greater horizontal control before the first shot is fired. In addition, the angle of the tricep relative to the pistol would give quicker recovery to recoil.


Simple thoughts....only a theory.
 
One of the problems with this hold is that when recoil flips the muzzle, it does so on a horizontal line. The gun rotates backward and (thanks to gravity) down toward your chest. To return it to a firing position, you would have to pull it up and back into the firing position, working against gravity the whole while.

With the traditional vertical hold, the gun goes essentially straight up. Since what goes up must come down, gravity becomes an assistant in the process of regaining your bead.

Also, to use the sights without tilting your head to the side or dipping it low, you would have to bring the gun up so high as to eliminate much of your lateral field of view on your strong side.
 
In the Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting class I took with Gabe Suarez, he taught us to use a slight cant (not the full 90*), dubbed the "half-homie".

There are a few positives to suing this position: One use I've found is better(easier) recoil management for shooting one handed i.e. injured support hand. You're bone and muscle structure is in a straighter line with the pistol slightly canted(half homie). The bio-mechanics provide for less stress on the hand/wrist, forearm/elbow.

S.I. teaches moving off the line of fire rapidly. Depending on the angle you are moving away from the target, 1/2 homey can help you line up your sights/gun better than trying to keep the pistol straight. For me, moving at 2-3 o'clock either direction, it works better. When one is moving off the X towards 10 or 11 o'clock with the upper torso bent over the half-homie does relieve the stress on the right shoulder as Gabe has demonstrated. One less physical stress to deal with!

If you want to see some really wild (but useful) one-hand shooting positions for close range fighting, check out AMOK!'s "Fighting For Your Gun" DVD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4FMIIsndQ

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_d...&field-keywords=Fighting+for+your+gun&x=0&y=0
 
Half-Homie seems a very effective teechnique for close quarter situations...since a traditional vertical hold would have very limited control with the arm not extended.
 
Shooting the pistol "gangsta style" is also a good way to get hit in the eye with the ejected hot cases.
 
I've found that in shooting one handed, a slight cant, about 20 degrees, to the left helps with recoil management. Also, when shooting weak handed, a similar cant to the right also gets the sights in front of my dominant (right) eye. But flopped all the way over just doesn't seem to be the way to go.
 
I fired a kimber custom II homie style and it jammed right off. I was testing the theory guns are less reliable fired sideways....its true.
 
I'm a lefty who's very left eye dominant, but I fire pistols righty. I shoot with elbows bent and forearms about 90 degrees from one another, with the pistol canted slightly to put the sights in front of my left eye. The sights are at about 11 o'clock.
 
It could be beneficial if the ejection port was down and you were shooting into a gang crowd at random. Muzzle jump would just move you to the next guy.

I think that the impression is more significant than the kill.
 
Neat, I just posted this in another thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386137
Agreed, with a normal grip, your wrist is less strained when the gun is tilted inwards.

This is why, after some experimentation, I changed the way I hold my arm.
Instead of holding my right arm with the right elbow pointed to the right side, I rotate it 90˚ clockwise.

Now my elbow points straight down. This also brings my grip of the gun from a sideways hold to a traditional vertical hold. It also brings my upper arm closer to my body so that it now contacts my chest. This is much more stable.

Try it, you might like it.
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If your elbow is pointing sideways (outwards), your hand naturally wants to be palm-down, resulting in a gansta hold.
If you turn your elbow to point downwards, your hand is pointing palm-sideways (with the palm facing inwards). This results in a traditional handgun hold.
I also found it steadied my entire arm.
In a two-handed hold I have both arms elbows downward, which is much more stable for me.
 
This happened at the range I go to. A guy came with a 50AE and to impress his friends he tried to shoot it Homie style. I wasn't there when it happened got there just after he left but there was a good size trail of blood. The gun hit him right upside the head from the recoil:eek: So very big guns maybe not so good:D
 
Odd, you never see bulleyes shooters or ISU shooter shooting their guns sideways.

Gee, wonder why.

Anyway if you want to shoot a pistol one handed take up bullseye, then graduate to ISU (international shooting).

And dont tell me you cant shoot fast in that style shooting. Ever shoot an international rapid fire match? It will humble you.

You start out at 25 yards, pistol pointing down about 45 degrees. You have a bank of 5 targets. The target turn you have 7 seconds to shoot one round at each target. Then you do the same thing in 5 seconds, then at 3 seconds.

I dont think I would want to get into a shoot out with a dude that can keep all 5 shots in the 10 ring at 25 yards on all five targets, in 3 seconds.

I've shot a few ISU rapid fire matches but I've yet to see one shooter holding his gun ganster style or sideways.

Oh by the way THEY USE THERE SIGHTS.
 
I dont think I would want to get into a shoot out with a dude that can keep all 5 shots in the 10 ring at 25 yards on all five targets, in 3 seconds.
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International Rapid Fire:
The course of fire is 5 targets at 25 meters, edged. At the ready, the targets face you. As the targets turn, you are allowed to raise your arm and fire one shot on each target. At the end of the series, the targets edge away. There is one series of 5 shots in 8 seconds for sighters, then 2 series of 5 shots in 8 seconds, 2 series of 5 shots in 6 seconds, then 2 series of 5 shots in 4 seconds. This complete series is shot twice for a total score of 600. This can be shot with any .22LR pistol, or with the more highly specialized rapid-fire pistols that shoot .22 Shorts. (22. Shorts have an advantage over .22LRs.) Hammerli 232 (pictured above), Unique, FAS, Pardini and Walther make good models, but you can have a good time and learn the rules with any .22LR semi-automatic. These matches are conducted under International Shooting Union (ISU) rules.
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I'd tend to be more impressed if 'the Dude' could do it with a Glock on a live, moving human being instead of a .22 'specialized' pistol:rolleyes:
 
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